StarCraft® II

What units do you want to see in HotS?

Posts: 234
Terran-diamond backs, wraiths
  • diamond backs are interesting with their ability to move and shoot; would do for great micro


  • wraiths would be a new diverse unit for terran, like viking and banshee had a baby. Would be interesting to work with.


  • not goliaths, they would basically be just buffed marines.
    Maybe fire bats and medics, though MMM balls would be super easy to get.

    Zerg-lurkers, defilers

  • Lurkers. Nuff' said.


  • I'm not sure what defilers are actually called, but they were in brood war and made an orange cloud in an area. Every ranged unit in that area could not hurt another. Would be great micro intensive situations.


  • Protoss-Scouts, dragoons

  • scouts would be a reiable, cheap air unit for protoss me thinks.


  • dragoons, maybe not. It seems that the original starcraft had a perfectly balanced unit (I'm not talking about fairness, I'm talking about how the unit was reliable. Zerg had the hydra, protoss had dragoon, terran had-uhh-I'll get back to you) Perhaps dark archons would be a more fun unit


  • thoughts?
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    Posts: 2
    I'd love to see lurkers again or a unit like that. It was so fun to win a game by surrounding an enemy's base with lurkers and have them freak out because they don't have a clue about what's killing them. :)
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    Posts: 1,393
    I really want to see new units. Lurker wouldn't be so bad, but this is Starcraft 2. Not Brood War. I'd like to see roles that are needed (like Zerg siege) filled by some new and creative concept that allows for things other than what I saw back in BW.

    For Terran, I could probably see the diamondback though. What I think they need is a bread and butter unit, since aside from Marine, marauders, thors, and siege tanks none of them can really hold their own in combat without support. Maybe something from the factory.

    Zerg, like I said, needs siege. I could see the Lurker here, but if they could come up with something new I'd be grateful.

    Protoss is kinda hard since I don't play them that much. Twilight Archons maybe? I'd like to see them get another spellcaster, since Mothership is an out of the way unit and HTs are mostly offensive spells. Though the sentry does fill this role well, so I'm not entirely sure.

    And what you were saying about Dragoons, the Terran role in BW was filled by the marine/medic combo. It was versicle and could heal itself really fast. Dragoons were awful units until they got the range upgrade, only because of their pathing and ability to get kited easily. Hydras in BW had the same problem Terran bio does now, it was TOO balanced. While not a broken unit, it could just do too many combat roles. Any Zerg that didn't have a large force of one at least supporting their army was doing something wrong. The new one, while not bad, doesn't have the same massable quality hydras had, which is why a lot of players complained. This also means that if Lurkers were implemented as a Hydra evolution, it would be like the Brood Lord; a great unit that's hard as hell to tech to and produce in any great quantity.

    Sorry, a bit of a rant there.
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    Posts: 390
    Screw you wraith, I want goliath
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    Posts: 7,768
    I dont think they'll put the wraith in. For some reason it seems like they wanted to limit the amount of units that are effective against air and can cloak. They did "nerf" cloaking altogether if you look at it.

    Defilers would be too devastating for terran, even if they had diamondbacks and wraiths.


    What would be really interesting is if you can choose your tech. Like if you perfer thors over goliaths or vultures over helions, or spectors over ghosts.

    IT would allow you to have new units, without removing old ones, and fix the overlapping role problem.

    06/12/2011 03:19 PMPosted by Subsourian
    This also means that if Lurkers were implemented as a Hydra evolution, it would be like the Brood Lord; a great unit that's hard as hell to tech to and produce in any great quantity.


    Well, look a the "devourer". They added a unit that fills its role, lower in the tech tree, and not attatched to the muta. They could do the same to the lurker and put it where banelings are.
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    Posts: 4,537
    06/12/2011 06:23 PMPosted by Logdude
    Screw you wraith, I want goliath


    You've got goliaths, but they can cliff walk and avoid anti-ground defences when fighting air, they're called vikings.

    Wraiths on the other hand are high speed air units, something terran desperately needs. There's no way terran can properly deal with muta harras with vikings, or ground units.

    Diamondbacks are cool and all, maybe they'd be useful I don't know, they weren't that useful in the campaign, but in multiplayer where micro is more important maybe........

    Lurkers....Okay well maybe zerg could use a new defensive option, and roach tunneling speed is so sloooooow. Maybe they will make detection more important against zerg than it currently is compared to say terran or protoss.

    protoss have void rays, they don't need scouts in multiplayer, But if terran get wraiths or another high speed fighter flux vanes could return.

    Dark Archons would be cool and fun, but i'd like them with new abilities like the ghost has EMP and Snipe but no lockdown, and High Templar have Feedback but not hallucination.

    BTW: Terran had goliaths for their dragoon role. It's clear that blizzard wanted to remove anti-capital ship ground units from the game, I like that idea, so i'm not for goliaths or dragoons getting back in.
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    Posts: 919
    LURKERS

    if Blizz doesnt put them in then they are more retarded then people already think they are with their Banes replace Lurkers idea.
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    Posts: 118
    Putting it out here now.
    I don't think there'll be any returning units, nor should there be.
    Game is balanced for balance, not for nostalgia.
    Reply Quote
    Posts: 4,537
    Putting it out here now.
    I don't think there'll be any returning units, nor should there be.
    Game is balanced for balance, not for nostalgia.


    my gosh you are so wrong...Why are raiders in warcraft 3?, Why were tempests replaced by carriers in sc2? Why do we even play starcraft 2?

    Hell the whole Protoss tech tree is nearly the same as it was in SC1/BW.
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    Posts: 1,379
    Actually if you read material from pre-release, Blizzard specifically wanted a balance of "old, iconic" units and brand new units. Stuff like the siege tank, carrier, marine, hydralisk, zealot, dark templar, etc, were just too strongly associated with Starcraft as mascots to be cut.

    At the same time, a LOT of roles were replaced, and in fact the galaxy editor has a bunch of scrapped remakes of old units as well as new experimental units (some of them aren't even in the editor).

    I doubt we'll see many returning units in xpacs except in campaign mode. The only one that MIGHT happen is lurkers, and only due to such popular demand. But it's just as likely that a whole new zerg unit will be given instead.

    We probably won't see reavers or wraiths or defilers, and maybe not lurkers, except in campaign mode. Too much overlap with existing units, not enough innovation, comes across as a remake, not a sequel.*

    If I had to pick, I think each race could use:

    Terran - A mech unit that can do much of what marines can do - specifically designed to allow a mostly mech army to avoid the hazards of biological vulnerabilities.

    Protoss - A harassment unit, this is the most obvious missing role of all three races. Harassment units should be cheap and easy to get a few of without special teching, DTs are very strong but defeat the idea behind harassment (minimal investment for moderate gain).

    Zerg - Zerg players themselves seem to say siege weapon, though if brood lord and ultralisk aren't siege weapons I don't know what is. What they really want is an area denial unit like the siege tank (or the lurker). There's plenty of room for a new version of such a unit, though it will have to be balanced. Anyone with a grain of sense can see the real reason zerg want lurkers is to wtfpwn bioballs and deathballs, obviously their dreams of that won't be coming true but something along those lines would be alright.

    *On the subject of a remake, an official Blizzard remake of SC/BW for SCII engine would be pretty neat.
    Edited by TrashMammal on 6/13/2011 4:18 AM PDT
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    Posts: 4,537

    If I had to pick, I think each race could use:

    Terran - A mech unit that can do much of what marines can do - specifically designed to allow a mostly mech army to avoid the hazards of biological vulnerabilities.


    You mean goliaths, and no they aren't what's needed, you can use vikings for that BTW. What terran needs is a fast air unit that can fight other air units, terran air as a whole is slow (compared to zerg and protoss air, which at least have 2 fast air units). Reintroducing wraiths or bringing in a new speedy air unit for terran is the way to go.




    Protoss - A harassment unit, this is the most obvious missing role of all three races. Harassment units should be cheap and easy to get a few of without special teching, DTs are very strong but defeat the idea behind harassment (minimal investment for moderate gain).


    No protoss already have units that work in a harrasment role, they have stalkers, DTs, and the uber fast warp prism. If I had to point out what protoss specifically needs I wouldn't be able to label it. But many of their units are underpowered and need tweeking, but their mechanics and use are sound. Protoss are the most unchanged since brood war after all.



    Zerg - Zerg players themselves seem to say siege weapon, though if brood lord and ultralisk aren't siege weapons I don't know what is. What they really want is an area denial unit like the siege tank (or the lurker). There's plenty of room for a new version of such a unit, though it will have to be balanced. Anyone with a grain of sense can see the real reason zerg want lurkers is to wtfpwn bioballs and deathballs, obviously their dreams of that won't be coming true but something along those lines would be alright.


    There is a difficult option for zerg players to deal with foritfied positions in the mid-game, Force field and siege tanks can baneling proof a base. Ultralisks aren't really a siege unit, but broodlords might be considered so, but they require a lot of teching to get, while the turtling power has already gotten the counters to them. What those players miss is not lurkers in that sense, they miss dark swarm. I'm not saying zerg should have defilers back but the ones who want lurkers and defilers back do have a point.



    And please don't be so negative or such a sourpuss,
    Reply Quote
    Posts: 1,379
    words


    I actually don't think terran needs much. I suggested a mech alternative to marines because frankly, terran have their bases covered. I sounds like you want a unit specifically to counter mutas. Yeah, let's just remake brood war...valkyrie go! Seriously though, there is no need for that, vikings are already the longest range basic air unit and terran has plenty of muta counters without introducing a unit specifically to counter them yet again. Plus it won't be as useful as you think, you know if such a unit were implemented it would do poorly against the things viking does well against, and the ground gained would be fairly little.

    I don't get where you think protoss have good harassment units. Zealots are slow, stalkers have terrible DPS (bad for clearing a mineral line quickly and leaving), DTs require a special tech building, are mad expensive, and certainly can't be gained early on unless you're doing a DT rush all in. Voids are probably the best protoss harassment unit, but again you're taking quite a risk to make even one or two of them. Compare with hellions.

    No idea where you get this "so negative" business from. I haven't QQ'd, I haven't been particularly argumentative, or anything like that. Pointlessly snarky remark.
    Reply Quote
    Posts: 97
    Baneling Launcher unit. A large slow moving unit that flings banelings, which u have to produce.

    In other words you make a bunch of banelings, tell them to gather on the unit, and the unit proceeds to fire banelings at the cost of 1 near by baneling.

    The Unit has a chance to stun or daze a target in the area of dmg for 1 (or less seconds) either that or a chance to increase dmg radius by 25% of the baneling's current radius.


    That is what I want from the zerg, in a way its like a siege tank but it fits the zerg more you know.

    The Unit would be very slow attacking meaning it would be best for you to keep a few banelings behind (if you mass banelings) while still sending the bulk of your banelings to hit the enemy.

    Then when you think about it, it kind of replaces the main idea of the zerg which is swarming the enemy with numbers, so....


    Please please, let's not add the stupid WOW or WC3 random numbers in the game. We have a game with steady numbers and some predictability here. I dont want luck to run my game.

    Refering to your 25% chance to stun here.
    Reply Quote
    Posts: 19
    If I had to pick, I think each race could use:

    Terran - A mech unit that can do much of what marines can do - specifically designed to allow a mostly mech army to avoid the hazards of biological vulnerabilities.

    Protoss - A harassment unit, this is the most obvious missing role of all three races. Harassment units should be cheap and easy to get a few of without special teching, DTs are very strong but defeat the idea behind harassment (minimal investment for moderate gain).

    Zerg - Zerg players themselves seem to say siege weapon, though if brood lord and ultralisk aren't siege weapons I don't know what is. What they really want is an area denial unit like the siege tank (or the lurker). There's plenty of room for a new version of such a unit, though it will have to be balanced. Anyone with a grain of sense can see the real reason zerg want lurkers is to wtfpwn bioballs and deathballs, obviously their dreams of that won't be coming true but something along those lines would be alright.


    I agree with you completely man. While I hesitate to say my friend is actually a huge fan of the baneling launcher idea, most zerg i know do want something more like what you describe...


    I actually don't think terran needs much. I suggested a mech alternative to marines because frankly, terran have their bases covered. I sounds like you want a unit specifically to counter mutas. Yeah, let's just remake brood war...valkyrie go! Seriously though, there is no need for that, vikings are already the longest range basic air unit and terran has plenty of muta counters without introducing a unit specifically to counter them yet again. Plus it won't be as useful as you think, you know if such a unit were implemented it would do poorly against the things viking does well against, and the ground gained would be fairly little.


    agreed. If anything all the terran need is some kind of researchable ability for one of their units, maybe 'nitro boosters' to speed vikings for 2 seconds each use after is it purchased or something like that. it could either be an energy or time based ability...

    I don't get where you think protoss have good harassment units. Zealots are slow, stalkers have terrible DPS (bad for clearing a mineral line quickly and leaving), DTs require a special tech building, are mad expensive, and certainly can't be gained early on unless you're doing a DT rush all in. Voids are probably the best protoss harassment unit, but again you're taking quite a risk to make even one or two of them. Compare with hellions.


    Thank you for this! With a heavy school load last semester I fell out of regular practice as the protoss and now trying to work my way back I am well aware of the distinct lack of a unit i feel comfortable sacrificing for the sake of harrassment. Careful use of blink stalkers can do it, but really only against other protoss since Maruaders @#$@ the stalker and zerg are so damned fast by that point already. I agree Protoss needs a strictly harassment type unit, or else some of their existing units need more tweaking to meet that need better. I try to incorporate a little harrassment into each game i play but so often I feel its almost an all in strat to pull it off for Protoss if its not very well done (which now that I'm so out of practice....)

    Honestly something I might like to see rather than a new protoss unit though is a return of the old shield batteries. I'd be a lot more comfortable risking units that will lose 60-70% of their health in shields if I knew they could actually be recharged when they got home. Blizzard's amazing new shield mechanic isn't so helpful when the enemy only has to follow you to keep you from charging (stalker is only ground unit that can outrun anything from the other two armies) Also this could make the archon more useful, or rather actually useful for a change. It would require an adjustment for immortals though...
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    Posts: 4,537


    I actually don't think terran needs much. I suggested a mech alternative to marines because frankly, terran have their bases covered.


    They mostly have their bases covered, the fastest teran air unit (viking, is even said in their unit description to be slow


    I sounds like you want a unit specifically to counter mutas. Yeah, let's just remake brood war...valkyrie go! Seriously though, there is no need for that, vikings are already the longest range basic air unit and terran has plenty of muta counters without introducing a unit specifically to counter them yet again. Plus it won't be as useful as you think, you know if such a unit were implemented it would do poorly against the things viking does well against, and the ground gained would be fairly little.


    You fail to understand the flaw that terran currently have in their arsenal, you didn't offer a solution, because you couldn't come up with a solution, because there isn't any, there's only work arounds.

    Terran air is slow, the fastest air unit is considered slow even on its official strategy page, it not only moves slow, but it has a slow attack animation, it's missiles move relatively slowly, and it has a long cooldown between attacks.

    It's so slow infact that void rays (which were already nerfed to oblivion) had to have their speed upgrade removed because terran couldn't case of keep up with them.
    Flux Vanes was removed because Vikings were inadequate.

    Now as a support flyer there's nothing wrong with vikings, but vikings alone are not enough, their range and firepower is great in defensive situations, but i'd rather not wait for the enemy to come (and come prepared), it can't control the pace of the battle, In most cases it's your opponent who decides if you get vikings not you. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike vikings or think they're weak or anything.



    I don't get where you think protoss have good harassment units. Zealots are slow, stalkers have terrible DPS (bad for clearing a mineral line quickly and leaving), DTs require a special tech building, are mad expensive, and certainly can't be gained early on unless you're doing a DT rush all in. Voids are probably the best protoss harassment unit, but again you're taking quite a risk to make even one or two of them. Compare with hellions.


    First of all....Phoenix are amazing harassment units, have you forgotten they exist? They're arguable the best harassment unit in the game. Also stalkers have a higher DPS than mutalisks, plus since they're multi-roled, you don't need to go out of your way to make stalkers just to harass unlike reapers with their 45 build time, and hellions which take precious factory time. They can also harass armored units more effectively than any terran unit could.

    But it is true that a lot of protoss ground is slow moving, just like ALL of terran air is slow moving, but at least protoss have stalkers which are fast moving.
    How about an AOE slowing ability that lasts a while for protoss? something to mitigate the speed disadvantage they have in general (But remember, they do have stalkers).
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    Posts: 2,596
    Why... does every thread... asking for suggestions for HotS... turn into a thread for bad players to complain about what they lose to and how HotS needs to give their race more stuff to deal with what they lose to?

    personally, i would like to see the lurker for zerg, a good early harassment option for toss, and for terran... not sure, maybe a change to the raven? or a new mech unit?
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    Posts: 877
    lurkers and diamondbacks would be good to see.
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    Posts: 118
    Putting it out here now.
    I don't think there'll be any returning units, nor should there be.
    Game is balanced for balance, not for nostalgia.


    my gosh you are so wrong...Why are raiders in warcraft 3?, Why were tempests replaced by carriers in sc2? Why do we even play starcraft 2?

    Hell the whole Protoss tech tree is nearly the same as it was in SC1/BW.

    So you're telling me that just because starcraft 2 has most of the same units as BW, that it's fine to just add the rest of the missing units in?

    Blizzard left in the units that fit, and removed the redundant ones. I'd much rather see something cool and original rather than just firebats because they can't think of anything else.

    If sc2 had no returning units at release then i'd understand, and I'd want to bring back some old units. But as it is, there's enough similarity between the old and new units/tech trees already.

    Blizzard isn't going to bring back lurkers. Blizzard tried to bring back lurkers for SC2 but they failed. They're not going to waste time going through that process all over again.

    Most of the units that people seem to want brought back would be boring and wouldn't fill any unique role
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