StarCraft® II

Make a difficulty harder than brutal?

Posts: 4,609
There were only 3 difficult missions on Brutal. Supernova was relatively difficult especially without tech reactors if you did it without taking shortcuts. All in air mode without mindcontrolling is probably the most difficult mission of the game. Stealing the Odin, or whatever its called, was also extremely difficult only because you had to be Johnny on the spot with your build or the second base would kill you.
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Posts: 3
I can only speak form experience, but given that I managed to beat brutal within 2 weeks of beginning to play RTS games, brutal needs a buff or there should be another level beyond. I'm no great SC2 player (plat) but even my low APM !@# could use more of a challenge in campaign.

Most levels can be steamrolled even with sloppy play - Brutal should punish your mistakes.
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Posts: 1,798
Make an AI that plays like professional players lol :P
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Posts: 540
They have the numbers, and despite the number of people who actually have beaten brutal, it is a surprisingly small amount. Less than 1%, according to Dustin Browder in this interview:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234187

In the interview they also state that they're planning on MAYBE making only 3 difficulties, but they want the hardest one to definitely be really hard, while the easiest one to be approachable to all people. However, they're making this difficulty based on being an expansion set, so expect it to be harder anyway.

Plus, if you want "hardcore," you'll want to play multiplayer anyway. In fact, a lot of people who play campaign are in the lower leagues.


I hope they don't read too much into that 1% number. There are a lot of great players who've just never cared to play through the campaign let alone brutal difficulty. I also think there's a high percentage of players who will never attempt the hardest settings, whether they are really hard or not. I think a more meaningful statistic is the number of people who tried to beat brutal as opposed to the number that succeeded.

For myself, I'm more of a spectator and fan than a great SC player. I would say that I'm decent, and I can beat my diamondish friends in unranked play but I don't think I should have been able to walk through the single player game on the hardest possible settings the way I did. I would agree that it should be harder.
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Posts: 6,273
I would like to see a harder difficulty level.
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Posts: 127
Sorry but brutal was awesome. The balance was fantastic. Like someone else mentioned, much harder and it would just feel like you are playing against a cheating AI. Sure a few missions could have been a bit harder but overall it was just a total blast.
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Posts: 279
I disagree, brutal is only easy if you know what the hell to do and abuse the ai. If you make it harder it just force you to abuse the ai even furthur, I find no point to do this.
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Posts: 238
New Difficulty : KOREAN
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Posts: 1,369
Challenge accepted!
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Posts: 58
Speaking as someone who has just beaten Brutal literally this day(after trying for about a week), i can say that while Brutal is difficult in some missions, some of the mechanics make other missions a cake walk.

For instance, anyone gold and up could beat a missions wherein you're given easy bases to expand to and no time limit; Shatter the Sky for instance. Mass 3/3 Cattlebruiser victory fleet with Science Vessel back up? I think yesss... made me have to check the difficulty to make sure i was on Brutal.

Other missions, however, are damn near impossible; Super Nova is truly brutal no matter how you play it. I personally was only able to beat it by taking it slow and steady most of the game, slowly working my way up to the main base just barely staying ahead of the fire wave... then blitzing it for the back corners, dodging storms and focusing air/cannons so i can cheap shot my way to victory!

And both the defend maps(All-in and In Utter Darkness) are so hard it's ridiculous... until you figure out the easy way to beat it(taking out the nydus worms with banshees and sacrificing entire groups of mm so that your siege tanks don't get blasted to pieces by Kerrigan, mass colossi/void ray respectively) and they too become a cake walk.

Others, are just plain annoying - Engine of Destruction, namely(SLOW THE !@#$ DOWN TYCHUS) - and frankly nerve-racking are really only enjoyable when you take the right research and armory upgrade paths.

I would say the best way to make a good HotS brutal feel more Brutal while still being enjoyable would be to try to cut back on annoying missions wherein you're baby sitting something/have a time limit that necessitates gaming of the save function.

Then you can remove any sort of saving, making the only option to start over at the beginning of the map, and simply have the computer be better, have more units, and really go at you.
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Posts: 281
This thread has been created an innumerable number of times since people completed the SC2 campaign.

Blizzard has responded to at least one of these saying that the community that is very "Passionate" about the difficulty of the campaign being too easy in general is a very small one on the whole.

Personally I want a insane and impossible difficulty above brutal but that's just me.

They do not want to make a game that is impossible for anyone of any level to get. Even though I do not see anyone in Bronze completing the campaign on Brutal (no offence). I think that if it is not in HOTS then we have to scream for it for the Protoss Expansion and perhaps have them revisit the Wings and HOTS campaign and implement a more difficult campaign setting.
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Posts: 2,248
They should really make a difficulty that pushes your limits.. kinda like WoW's heroic fights, missions where every 200 minerals count, where you have to be effective. The only missions i found worthy was all-in air and supernova.. I'm doing a no-upgrade run and supernova is insane, but stil doable, requires several reloads.. the way the ultimate difficulty should be imo.
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Posts: 56
12/28/2012 08:36 PMPosted by ShadowWave
Even though I do not see anyone in Bronze completing the campaign on Brutal (no offence)


Hi.
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Posts: 4
Yeah but HOTS was even easier!!!

Easy=less replay value
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Posts: 754
Exactly.

HoTS brutal was a joke. I say this as a player who is total crap at multiplayer.

WoL brutal was good, at least for the first campaign anyway. The only mission I hated was In Utter Darkness, as it was just no fun. All In was everything it should have been. It made me almost throw my keyboard several times, but I felt incredibly satisfied once I actually beat it.

I expected the difficulty to ramp up like it did in the original Starcraft, with brutal being at the very least as hard or harder than the original. I still can't beat Broodwar Zerg mission 8 or 10 without cheats. That is because I'm not that good of a player. This is a good thing. Give us players something challenging to aspire to complete.

To those who say, "Oh just don't use Kerrigan, or the evolution missions, or... whatever..." It feels entirely unsatisfying to deliberately not use all of the tools at your disposal. And what do you care anyway? If you can't hack it in brutal, play in the lower difficulty settings. Hell, HotS even REMOVED the achievements for completing things in hard or higher, with the exception of actually completing the game at higher difficulties. Still, you people really want achievements for not actually achieving anything? -_-
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Posts: 3
I have to admit HotS campaign seemed far easier for me even on brutal but I still have moments of annoyances. The only thing brutal missions do to my play style is make it messy. Effective, but messy. No time to make sure you double sure your units are in striking/defending in the right moments and in their right positions. I just have to go with the flow and wing it. I do like how HotS have organized its campaign achievements though. You can go through normal first and complete the main achievements and then run through hard snagging the mastery ones. Then brutal is just all in and you need not concern yourself with optional quests anymore. Eh can't really complain anymore now that I got the Narud portrait. But how to display that one on my battle.net profile? (not the in-game one).
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Posts: 4,536
06/20/2011 04:10 PMPosted by Stranger
Welcome to the Jungle was literally impossible to do when you first got access to it. You needed all kinds of goodies to overpower the Protoss and prevent them from sealing every well in 20 minutes. Banshees were a godsend.

That is actually my favorite mission on brutal. No tanks or banshees. Just marines, medics, firebats, marauders and reapers. Of course, Goliaths cuz they are unlocked on this mission. I always expanded and after taking out the base (No orbital command centers either) It really helped me focus on my macro and micro a lot. It's damn near impossible if you do not expand, granted. But once you have the 2x income with 4 rax and 3 factories, you can get the ball rolling.
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Posts: 3,071
08/17/2014 07:59 PMPosted by Xombie
06/20/2011 04:10 PMPosted by Stranger
Welcome to the Jungle was literally impossible to do when you first got access to it. You needed all kinds of goodies to overpower the Protoss and prevent them from sealing every well in 20 minutes. Banshees were a godsend.

That is actually my favorite mission on brutal. No tanks or banshees. Just marines, medics, firebats, marauders and reapers. Of course, Goliaths cuz they are unlocked on this mission. I always expanded and after taking out the base (No orbital command centers either) It really helped me focus on my macro and micro a lot. It's damn near impossible if you do not expand, granted. But once you have the 2x income with 4 rax and 3 factories, you can get the ball rolling.


Very easy to do at the start on Brutal; Bunkers and Reapers help a lot. Upgraded Reapers remove Probes easily, and many of its guards usually fly away. Goliaths are great anti-air and armour guards for Marines, Medic, and SCV armies. Later on, the player can push to the enemy's main base, and construct bunkers to defend the only two ways ground forces can enter. Afterwards, create missile turrets between the two gaps and patrolling marines/goliaths in order to kill them. It takes some time, but Reapers are essential if you just go Fire/Marauder mission, then Reaper mission before this. Firebats and Marauders are not necessary at all, although Marauder frost grenades and Firebat splash does give a small boost for combat.

After the enemy base is secured, sending all your SCVs to harvest 7 to 15 of the gases will be easy to do.
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Posts: 4,536
I will admit though that the HotS campaign was way easier than it should be on brutal. I had very little issues and never had to look up any videos or find anything online to help me out with. The most issues I had with a mission would probably be the one where you control Stukov. It was a fun mission but it was hard without Kerrigan though. Plus the timed aspect of it and taking on protoss. Took me 3 tries to beat it.
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Posts: 94
Or make some macro missions a choice such that you can't use hero units. (maybe this would in some cases require a slight decrease in difficulty on brutal for certain missions at the very beginning of the mission. I am thinking of the stukov vs hybrid mission.

I think I just didn't bother using Kerrigan playing it the first time through and thought it was pretty easy (I played on either normal or hard though), and I had no idea about Kerrigan's higher level abilities, since I just didn't bother to look at them.

This is mostly in regards to certain Kerrigan op things like banelings and apocalypse.

It would certainly make a lot of the missions that people complained were too easy with Kerrigan somewhat interesting on brutal.

I actually didn't notice how strong Kerrigan was in near the second of the campaign my first time through it, but after hearing about the op complaint on b.net here of kerrigan, I decided to test it out, and I could see how Kerrigan could be the equivalent of about 50 to 70 supply worth of army sometimes,

I think I used Kerrigan on my brutal playthough though, although I didn't rely heavily on her and probably could have barely done it without her anyways. (or maybe I didn't use her. I don't remember)

I also think some wings of liberty missions could have an insane difficulty added too, although I had lots of trouble beating some of those missions on brutal.

oops didnt realize this was an old thread.

I thought brutal was a good difficulty for most of wings of liberty, but now that I am better at the game, I can see that some of the missions would be more fun if they were harder.

Why not make some brutal missions like broodwar zerg mission 10 or 8? People who don't want to bother with brutal can just not bother with it. It's not like broodwar lost popularity because of the hardness
Edited by hurdler on 8/17/2014 9:48 PM PDT
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