Topic World War Zombies
There are points at the bottom of the map where you can build sensor towers and spy into the Zombie Tunnels., as well as make sniper towers to shoot at creeps, buildings, moving inside the tunnel.
Also, I don't know if it's because of a technical limitation but if you could allow for more building space at the mouths of each cave that would be fantastic. Defending against good creep players gets difficult with so little breathing room.
Other than that it's a fantastic map and I've already wasted hours on it.
I think while zombies are very powerful at the beginning, their advantages quickly diminished after human stack some better units (snipers/chain gunners). At one game I was massing 220 pop including hydras and zombie beasts and cant even break a small army of 20snipers/20chain gunners (with fortifications of course). It seems there should be at least a tech to increase the movement speed of all zombies across the board, which is similar to the future tech of human, making the late game experience more fun. After the first 10-20 minutes, this game can quickly turn into to bored repetition for both sides if only the human players know how to bunker/wall up the entrance.
Edited by KOMagnet on 7/21/11 1:51 PM (PDT)
ok.. one GOOD IDEA to prevent pure mass zombie
each building of zombies can only build 5 of em and and they will need wait for like 30sec to make 5 more again and so on
(the duration, call it ran out of corpse <3)
same as the buildings that zerg get at the start of the game
so that would encourage zerg to do more macro
and also the free zombie will get weaker and weaker, when there is more, for example:
zombie >20 mov. speed reduce 0.1
zombie > 40 mov. speed reduce 0.2
zombie > 60 mov. speed reduce 0.3
etc. every 20 zombie it will be 0.1 stack reduce mov speed
and also zombie gets to evolve when they are killing a lot, ( team killing wont help )
but forexample, a splitter get like 5 kills will evolve and get 0.1 atk speed extra
which could make zombie more focus on unit atm so they can not just suicide units for free*
same as human, unit gets stronger every 5kills , it could be more atk speed, or atk doesnt really matter, to range unit
and to some tank like, firebat will get 0.5 armor or 1 per 10 kills ? ( i dont know if firebat can get that many kills)
i hope these feature could be apllied so that zerg and human will try and do micro while not just mass one kind of unit PLEASE take a consideration on my opinion PLEASE
well now i have seen that zombies can only win in the first 5-10 minutes and if they dont win in that time frame then humans will win because they will have more units and so i think that zombies should get a buff or at least they should have upgrades but not humans because humans are already too powerful because they now use expert teamwork
ok.. one GOOD IDEA to prevent pure mass zombie
You need to play a bit more to see the actual balances. As the other player has pointed out, if zombies dont win in first 10 minutes and when they are walled in by human players, its always game over for them. So far I have not lost once after zombies are contained. I think something has to be done to enhance late-game experience as zombies. It's quite boring and hopeless as of now.
Although the zombies are weak late game, they are pretty strong early game... If the zombies know they can mass regulars without cost then they can take out everybody within the first 10 minutes, if you made a cap for the free zombies then that would be less of a problem.
the only reason why the zombies only get the first 10 minutes for a chance to survive is because of the players slow army build rate, and if massed there is nothing the players can do to stop the zombies early game.
Edited by Wavesblade on 7/21/11 10:42 PM (PDT)
and then one player sits in the back getting snipers while his allies get beaten.
I just got out of a game where everyone except russia died early, but he massed snipers in one of his bases and took out everything then slowly pushed back, his allies who had hid SCVs with him rebuilt, and it was GG, nothing I could do.
Also, snipers can shoot into browns tunnels from the desert above.
ALSO, if yellow/purple IMMEDIANTLY rush the zombies, the humans can win right away, no contest.
Severely imbalanced, yet fun map when not everyone knows these "ins and outs' to win easily.
U need to fix the bug about air being able to snipe the zombies from outside the cave asap make an extended no fly zone or something because if u dont fix that people are gonna do it more often and then no one will want to play
I would like to second (fourth?) the opinion that late game is lacking - I've only played about a dozen times now, but if you get even 2 or 3 competent human players, zombies simply can't beat a late game fortress.
Specifically, if someone (probably russia or scandinavia) walls in (triple thick wall or more) the entire north eastern area, 220/220 supply zombies can't get into, regardless of what units they have. Then, one other person plays tag with the zombies, running around capping foundations as fast as possible; the zombies have to run back and destroy them or the humans will get too much income and be able to extend the area their wall covers; but due to slow unit speeds, the zombies can't attack the fortress and cover all the foundations (in spain/france/italy/germany/poland/turkey) they've already killed. If a third person survives, he micros bombers/other air units, and just does hit and run tactics further preventing the zombies from ever harming the fortress (thus allowing the fortress to slowly creep to new cities until it covers everything).
My suggested solution to this is a) allow zombie pits to increase the supply cap, probably by 5, 10, or 15. (If it is still true that you can build multiple pits on one foundation, that would need a huge fix, but I haven't tested it) b) give zombies a unit like a creep tumour; except let the tumour be a defensive structure roughly equivalent to ohh.. 6 black hawks/gatling gunners. The tumour can only be built adjacent to a zombie pit, and it should probably cost about 10 minerals (perhaps let the above ground zombie pits create creep, but only in a 1 or 2 square radius, and have tumours require creep to be built). Finally, c) give the zombies some sort of constant income, probably based on the number of zombie pits they have above ground (so you'd probably need the zombie pits above ground to be a different unit, so they could simply add income like a city); it would be a very low income, like 1 every 10 seconds or something.
Reasoning: Obviously zombies are very powerful early on; but since most of that power comes from sheer numbers, which they can never increase, zombies literally never increase their threat level. And in fact, zombies decrease their threat level as they kill human players because they have fewer bodies to feed on (and thus fewer income sources). Secondly, zombies gain literally nothing from gaining ground, and in fact they become weaker as they gain ground, because (due to the low supply cap) low unit speeds means the larger an area the zombies control, the slower they can actually attack. Finally, the previous two arguments lead to my preferred zombie tactic: Keep spain alive. NEVER kill spain; by leaving him alive, he will make troops - then every single time you send out an attack wave as a zombie, you wipe out spains wall, and then go attack someone else. Spain becomes your only real source of income.
All of which means that zombies hate expanding and get weaker as they expand, and weaker as they kill off human players. Which not only makes late game terribly unbalanced, but makes no sense either. My suggested solution allows zombies to continue becoming more and more powerful as the game goes on, which urges the humans to kill them as fast as possible. (As it should be, instead of 3 hour fortress stale mates where neither side can hurt each other effectively.) The tumours are there so that the zombies have some sort of defensive unit that doesn't take up their (desperately low) supply space, which would prevent the harass city cap human tactic, while still taking up some of the zombies (extremely low in a long game, but less important) mineral resource.
Hope my feedback helps!
Edited by Nelphine on 7/22/11 7:16 AM (PDT)
The Zombies should also have a free but extremely slow production time (say... 90 seconds) super hp, super slow suicide creature, that hits ground and air in a large radius. Perhaps, 8 radius, 50 damage, 75 hp scourge/baneling combo, half the speed of the current zombies. This would permit them to exit the caves whenever they wanted, without actually doing anything else for them due to the long build time and slow walk speed. Right now, if you park about 15 black hawks on each cave, the zombies cannot get out; and realistically, the zombies cannot kill all 10 humans before 30 black hawks can be built. The bomb unit would void any type of close in defense just sitting on the cave.
It would actually have to have about 3 hp less than 3 bunkers could do to it in the time it takes for it to reach the bunkers.
I want a cpu zombie style map that comes in waves. And the waves get stronger, right now the zombies get weaker and weaker as the game progress. Once I set up my barricade/bunker fortress, my biggest worry is the zombie player quitting before I can build up my super army to clean house.
that brings up another problem, there's no way to bust into the zombie lair without cheating. (ie, putting air units on cliffs inside the zombie lair and sniping from outside the wall)
Great potential for this game, but needs a lot of work. The balancing feels horrible..snipers destroy zombies like there is no tomorrow...2-3 decent human players can easily survive the initial rush and make it impossible for a zombie win...since when do zombies get a set number of units? they are zombies, they should never be set to x units. Currently if the two good zombie players rush they can win, but in the 20+ games I've played the zombies only won once and mainly because most the humans quit right away.
I can understand the bugs because you are a new mapper.
BUT COME ON WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? YOU MADE CAPITOLS 5 MINERALS. THATS 1500 HP WALLS for 5 freaking minerals. Unlimited and repairable.
Who the heck needs a 45 hp barricade for 5 minerals 10 lumber when you can get 1500 BIG 3x3 WALL for 5 minerals? Where is the common sense?
Edited by HeadSlayer on 7/23/11 12:22 AM (PDT)
Alright so I've played a LOT of this game and this is everything I've come to know about it and my opinions on the matter.
Before anything, I'd like to say this game is addicting/fun and has a ton of potential.
Capitals need a cap limit.
-They are ridiculous and spammable walls that cost nothing
-They increase your mineral income, (I swear it does)
-They make barricades useless
-If there's no limit on purpose they need to at least cost 50+
Zombies Gain No Advantage By Gaining Ground, Need More Bonus's For Territory Control
-Once on land, zombies are easy to harass with air and are much harder to manage after you get out of cave
-Once you spread out, your max food limit starts to show and you're stuck trying to push into the continent but at the same time not get harassed by air/lose bases
-Its VERY easy to choke point and kite zombies on land
Humans Should Not Be allowed To Enter Zombie Caves For the First Few Minutes
-A good purple/yellow Can EASILY rush zombies from the start with the armies they are given and destroy a few spawners and sometimes finish zombies off completely
-If ANY of the players help purple/yellow rush, its GG for the zombie, period, I've done it with a friend several times now
-Radar rushing/Sniper combo makes for a very frustrating defense to fight right at the start and is very tricky to break
-The humans are BEING attacked and are SUPPOSED to be at a HUGE DISADVANTAGE early game, not go straight to the offensive, humans are MEANT to counter attack!
Human Air is Anti-Fun and Degrading to Gameplay, So It Should Be Removed
Edit: This DOES NOT include transports
(One of my more extreme opinions)
-When a player with air destroys a ground army, the zombie feels like !@#$ and hates the fact that at ANY time his army can by ambushed like that, forcing him to micro hyrdas around his army *if he can even handle that much*
-When a player's air army gets murdered by hydras, the players feels like absolute %^-* and feels useless
-Air units cannot go into the caves, so they actually delay the game, you can kill the zombies that come out of the caves, but other players have to actually finish it, whereas if everyone invaded, the game would finish faster and avoid stalemates
-As per last statement, air causes/leads to stalemates
Zombies need some sort of Timer For Double Move Speed Mode (Armageddon Clock)
-The humans are SUPPOSED to destroy the zombies, but since there's very little pressure late game to do so, many stalemates/standoffs occur
-With a sense of urgency, humans will play to wipe out the infection before they mutate/rage and zombies will do everything they can to spread their power/delay till Armageddon
That's all I got for now, I would appreciate the creators thoughts on this at some point and hope others agree.