SC EXPANDED - Melee, FFA mod

Posts: 652
SC Expanded is a mod I've been working on for some time. It's an option to all those "enable everything" mods. In this mod players have some tech-tree options, like units and upgrades, but the main feature is that players can affiliate to a factions (for Terrans), brood (for Zerg), and tribe (for Protoss). So, even though many campaign units, upgrades and abilities are avaiable, a player can't get them all, so it reduces balance issues.

This is still a work in progress, but here's what the mod features right now for Terrans:

TERRAN UNIT OPTIONS
Heavy infantry unit: must select firebats or marauders.
Scout vehicle: must select Hellions or Vultures.
Support ship: must select Ravens or Science Vessels.

TERRAN TECH OPTIONS
Marine equipment: must select Combat Shield or C-16 Gauss Rifle (better range and firing speed)
Bunker tech: must select Neosteel Frame or Shrike Turret
Battlecruiser ability: must select Hurricane Missiles or Yamato Cannon

TERRAN FACTIONS
Colonists: many changes to terran tech-tree.
Dominon: only one that can build Thors, also can request Nova and some other changes.
Infested: spawn infested units, regeneration for structures and other infested abilities.
Kel-Morian: strong mining abilities.
Mercenaries: can hire mercenary units.
Moebius Foundation: custom units and abiities.
Raynor's Raiders: Hyperion provides good support for calldown.
Tosh's Pirates: excellent stealth and spying skills.
Umojan Protectorate: better weapon and armor upgrades.

Published on American servers. Search for 'Expanded' + a map name. 3 maps avaiable: Agria Valley, Lost Temple and Abyss. I'll give more information here if I people get interested on it.
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Posts: 378
Sounds interesting... I take it Terran is the only one changed so far?
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Posts: 652
No, All 3 races get faction options. Zerg get unit and tech options too, I didn't want to write everything on the first post. So here goes Zerg changes:

ZERG UNIT OPTIONS
Zergling morph: must select Banelings or Glidelings. A Glideling (I know its not a good name) can jump cliffs just like a Reaper. Also both Glidelings and Reapers can be ordered to jump over other obstacles and terrain).
Infestation specialist: must select Infestors or Chokers. Chokers are borrowed from Blizzard's Left 2 Die mod. They also get the Parasite and Spawn Broodlings abilities.

ZERG TECH OPTIONS
Hydralisk mutations: must select Grooved Spines or Muscular Augments
Ultralisk mutations: must select Anabolic Synthesis or Chitinous Plating

ZERG BROODS
Aiur: many old units replace new ones and Lurkers are back.
Grendel: can spawn Feederlings. A Feederling can attach itself to a host giving it +50 life.
Hybrid Slaves: can summon a Zerg Hybrid.
Jormugand: can summon a Leviathan (OP right now but its only for testing purposes) and some other changes.
Surtur: can spawn Brutalisks.
Tiamat: can summon special strain units like Hunter Killers, Devouring Ones and Kukulza.
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Posts: 378
Just played this map as Protoss, and it certainly seems like it has potential! I think it would be better if you either selected the tribe at the start of the game or at your nexus, because as it is, many players do not get their forges until the late game. As it is, I was able to build a fleet of phoenix before switching to scouts.

I haven't tested many tribes yet, but the Purifier seems a bit OP right now. Also, you can build multiple Purifiers per Nexus. Not sure if this was intentional or not. Still, multiple nexuses make it hard to tell which Nexus built a Purifier thus making it hard to disable the shield. You may want to either make a specific building for the Purifier or mark the Nexuses in some way.

Oh and the scout could use a buff. Perhaps the sight upgrade should increase range as well?
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Posts: 652
Thanks for the reply. Players are supposed to have only 1 Purifier, I'll check that. I'm working on the requirements, so players wont be able to warp in Phoenixes and then choose Akilae to get Scouts, this system is already working for some factions and broods.
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Posts: 31
Sounds neat but its impossible to play unless you have a premade party because of blizz's awesome popularity system, you have a channel for it or something?
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Posts: 31
Tried it against AI on lost temple, seems like it could be fun. I don't know how balanced you want it to be, but some suggestions...

- The marine upgrade that adds 2 range and increases attack speed is way overkill, especially since you added ground medics. It pretty much makes them uncounterable by anything that isn't massive splash.

- Firebats are pretty terrible units in their sc2 incarnation even with the flame upgrade you added, you might want to make them a bit better if they can replace mauraders.

- Adding the hive mind emulators is pretty extreme, especially with the same stats/cost as campaign. It's pretty much an autowin versus zerg since you can turtle and take all their units. I'd either remove them, make the build limit 1, or something.

- You might want to limit the protoss monolith things to 1 also, or else you can spam them and creep towards the enemy base. There really aren't any zerg units with high enough health to take them out especially when they are guarded.

- Scouts are pretty awful compared to phoenix for their cost, about as terrible as they were in brood war. You might want to make them slightly cheaper or something idk.

- The melee infested terran costs like 50 25 but is worse than a zergling, the infested marine only costs 50 mins and is much better.

- The capital ship from the same tech path as the monolith is pretty ridiculous, void prism or whatever. It has the same cost/tech requirement as a carrier but has like 10 speed, more dps, doesn't require you to buy interceptors, has no build limit, and its ability is essentially a no energy seeker missile with a 20 second cooldown. Just one of these is way better than the hybrid hero unit.

- The dominion tech path didn't seem good enough to warrant costing 200/200 when the others are all free.

- Irradiate from the science vessel costs 25 energy which is hilariously op against zerg. It costed 75 in brood war but with how units stack in sc2 125 would probably be a better cost.

- The zerg cannon from the leviathon tree that attacks both air and ground seems like a little much, especially its range.


Also some bugs, you might already be aware of most of them but just in case..

- The tech tree with improved upgrades for terran is bugged and air armor doesn't work.

- When I went the purifier tech route as protoss the air upgrades were bugged and I couldn't get past 2/2.

- The purifier has the invulnerability buff from campaign before you destroy the nexuses.

- All of the hero units and a lot of the added units like mercenaries aren't affected by upgrades, this might be intended don't know.

- The parasite ability on the infestor replacer doesn't work

-It seems you can build multiple leviathans (and purifiers too i think), which I doubt is intended. I know you already said the leviathan wasn't finished but I'd recommend getting rid of the infispawning mutas and BLs lol.

- The refineries are red even if they aren't empty, still work fine though.

Only played for like 2 hours mostly terran that's about all I can think of. Cool concept though better than most of the other garbage on Bnet.

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Posts: 652
You pointed some important things. I've just started balancing things since I'm getting feedback like yours. I know there's much to do about it. Many units are there just for showing players they're an option. Many of them still need a role or several changes before they can be considered playable. I also need to balance factions, I decided to add a cost to the Dominion mainly because this faction enables new units with no drawbacks, but then I went working on other things and didn't do the same for other factions.

The Scout is going to be cheaper, and I may change its upgrades a little. The melee infested terran needs a new role, maybe it will be a suicide unit.

I knew about some of the bugs, I'll check them all and try to fix them.
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Posts: 44
Wait, i heard about the zerg and the terran. what about the protoss? planning on trying it soon
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Posts: 652
I don't want to let you down, but Protoss get less options right now. The campaign doesn't give much to add and I'm running out of ideas. So Protoss can choose form a list of 5 tribes, no unit or tech options.

PROTOSS TRIBES
Akilae: This strong khalai tribe makes use of Shield Batteries, and Scouts instead of Phoenixes. They also have the Purifier as a hero unit.
Furinax: This tribe can upgrade their weapons, armors, and shields faster. Can upgrade their structures armor and can cast Repulsor Field from Nexi (still needs to be tested ingame).
Hybrid Adepts: These dark protoss worship Hybrids and have one of them as a hero unit. They can warp in Monoliths and have a unique capital ship.
Sargas: The main dark templar tribe can use Dark Archons and Mohandar as a hero unit (NO ZERATUL, I won't give any faction the main characters).
Shelak: Preservers as a spellcaster unit (early alpha version, needs a lot of work) and Stone Zealots take the place of Colossi (I'm not sure its a good thing).

Remember everything can be changed for future versions as the game is very unbalanced right now. Also if better units/abilities/upgrades show up I may remove some of the current ones. If you play it please take the time to tell me your thoughts about it. Some good ideas came from players and this mod has room for much more.
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Posts: 652
Is anyone out there playing it? I'm working on fixes and balancing some units. Id like to have some opinions to go on. I'll share what I've been thinking so as to balance it:

-Medics: they really need to nerfed or they will get scrapped. Maybe make their Heal ability slower and shorter in range. Also raise the unit's cost.

-Firebats: Incinerator Gauntlet upgrade may also increase damage vs light units to make the firebat a good option to the Marauder.

-Scout: I've made changes to this unit but I don't know if its a good option to the Phoenix. It may stay as a slower unit and gain a longer range against air targets.
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Posts: 652
I'm bumping this thread to say this mod has come a long way. Players have given me feedback and many things changed, so the mod is a lot more balanced now. I'll keep working on it so expect new and exciting additions to it.

Currently 4 maps on NA servers: Agria Valley, Arakan Citadel, Abyss and Lost Temple. I'm planning to release it on EU servers. Anyone willing to try it feel free to add me and we can play it together some time.
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Posts: 2
I know this thread is super, super old and I'm very late to this party, but I just had to say that I only recently discovered this game and it is AWESOME. Pretty much since the game has come out I've wanted an option to play campaign units in multiplayer, and while there's a couple of maps that just give you everything they haven't been tested very well(ie disregarding balance problems some of the heroes remain invincible, etc).

This mod is basically everything I'd hope for in a multiplayer SC experience and I've been blowing a ton of time just playing vs AI and trying to nail down the various factions.

Are you still working on this at all? Any future updates?

Does anyone out here play this? And if not, you SHOULD.
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Posts: 652
Hi Rez, I'm glad you liked the mod, good job necroing this thread ;-) Yes it is still active and I'm constantly fixing bugs, balancing units and adding new stuff to it. It just happened that players gather at Mapster's official thread so I didn't bother updating it here. Here's the link:

http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/player-zone/map-feedback/24490-sc-expanded-melee-mod/?page=31

The mod has even a version for the HoTS beta right now, in case you have a beta key.

Feel free to join the discussion, report bugs, suggest changes and additions and anything else even criticism (but make it constructive please ;-)
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Posts: 28
Me and my brother enjoyed playing this! although I had to re-host the dependencies myself as the ones on battle.net where not working properly when I tried adding your mod as a dependency to our own map.

We noticed a problem with the dark-archon. it is a bit OP as is, the shields should drop to zero when you use mind control historicly, also you might not want to allow mindcontrol to work on the mothership, historically it did not work on 'hero units'. It is ridiculously game changing in our matches to mc the mothership or mothership alternative that you added.
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Posts: 652
@Weyoun: In order to add the mod to your own maps you need to download all the required files to your Mods folder, which includes the Left 2 Die mod, the main SC Expanded mod file and the 3 assets mods, one for each race.

Thanks for the suggestions.
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Posts: 28
Yes, I had no problem using it after I downloaded the files.

I think the issue was that the blizzard left 2 die mod was updated/renamed and the b.net uploaded version of your mod couldn't find the left 2 die dependency. I had to download your mod, open it in the editor, delete the dependencies, re-add the dependencies, and publish to battle.net, then use my published version of your mod instead of your public version on battle.net. I was then able to add my version as a dependency, instead of using your published mod directly. (We played on a modified version of the worldship map.)

What ideas do you have in mind for the protoss? I am making a tug-of-war style map for me and my brothers enjoyment (If I can ever wrap my head totally around the data editor.)Right now you play as a hero and fight along side with AI ally, you can choose from 10 ai personalities and also because of your mod pick a tribe for them also. We are using the protoss as the 'main' race in our map only, but are including your mod because it is just so awesome. Are you open to collaboration? I'd love to help out a bit if it will teach me about the data editor, and finish fleshing out the protoss.
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Posts: 652
@Weyoun: I have a huge list of ideas from all the players who help me fix and balance this mod. Nothing world-shaking right now, since I'm waiting for HoTS, but some units need some balance changes, other needs to be repositioned in new tribes or be movewd around somehow.

Yes I'm open to collaboration, although I don't have free time to help you directly. You can help by reporting bugs and suggesting new things for the mod. I don't really let anyone else work on the mod file but maybe if you can fix a bug I can't or don't have the time to fix you can send me your version of the file and tell me what exactly what I should copy into mine.

Remember you are free to publish your tug-of-war map as public as long as you give proper credit not only to me, but to all the guys who made the custom models as well (this is simple because I already do that in each unit's description).
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