Will humanity be its own end?

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I didn't see anywhere where Astrai claimed that we dominated climate change more than the sun, but it's quite frightening that in the course of a few decades we have essentially boned the crap out of ourselves more than we have comparitively over the last couple thousand years. I'd have to guess that the only thing to come as close to as bad as the CO2 emissions is the mass deforestation that we have done/continue to do. Those two sort of go hand in hand obviously, but to think on the grand scale of things, over the many many years we've been here to have caused so much damage in such little time is a big deal.
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Yeah it is a pretty dramatic change. Extinction event up in this!
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Posts: 406
The truly sad part is that we'll screw ourselves before we fix it, the events will unfold we're quite likely already a bit too far past the point of no return at least concerning ozone damage, it's going to take many years to fix our damage. It seems to usually be the trend though, over-do it until there's something catastrophic that happens to wake us up when it's too late to save it.
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Humanity has changed the global environment by a massive factor in a very short term; the kind of change that's never been seen on that scale or in that time period in anything short of cometary collision.

End Permian!

10/17/2011 03:48 PMPosted by Astrai
Natural processes take A VERY LONG TIME. It's scale of time which is the important metric.

No they don't. With the Deccan traps, it's possible that happened in a century. I don't think it's really possible for them to get an accurate date for the bottom of the bed, it's pretty massive and hard. That sounded horrid, I apologize.

Here is an example of rather dramatic evolution within the span of something like 30 years: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html

Slow progress as a prerequisite of being a natural processes is a complete load. Yeah, yeah, it can happen over a long period, but there have been rather dramatic times. For example, every magnetic reversal is hypothesized to be anywhere from instantaneous to 50 thousand years or more.

the sun is effectively a constant pressure, and despite causing variances in weather, does so in perfectly predictable patterns, which are known to not be related to the extremes in climate which we're seeing in recent years.

You base this confidently on how many decades of measurement? Lack of data to make such a claim! Also, it doesn't take much for the aledo to raise, thereby dramatically changing the climate thanks to reflectivity. I agree though, it has been rather solid (okay, as solid as a gas can be...) for the duration of our ability to measure its output somewhat.

10/17/2011 03:48 PMPosted by Astrai
And it's not that the earth hasn't faced hotter periods, either; but it's one of how well the earth will sustain our species in the new equilibrium. Which is not going to be very favourable to us at all.

It won't be as comfy and there will likely be lots of casualties and range restrictions, but I'd strongly argue that the setting at the end Permian was way worse.

I really think we are looking at things differently in terms of scale. I look at things in a great long time, like 100 thousand years meaning almost nothing on its own. You are saying that decades (ie measurable human life) matters, which IMO it doesn't. If we live, we live great. If not, well too bad we were our own extinction event. To what magnitude any of our changes and continued output have really isn't something that can be predicted, especially given the flexibility of our species.

Also, I know it's CNN (ugh) but there is preliminary data that suggests that cell phones are slaying our bees via Colony Collapse Disorder. I think the mortality hovers around 50% for colonies, if it gets much more it would likely impact things like crop pollination. If bees die, there isn't a species of nectar loving fly (lol male mosquitos and for the most part, females) that can save us.

Edited by Ponera on 10/17/2011 9:27 PM PDT
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Aren't other considerations important to the extinction of our species?
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CCD is a clear danger that is currently threatening our pollinators, which is rather significant.
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Apparently another major group of pollinators is suffering as well- bats. Apparently they drop by the thousands almost every night near wind farms, as the structures mess with their sonar and they crash into the blades. :(
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I am jealous, I wish I had more bats up in Canada.
Edited by Ponera on 10/18/2011 5:31 PM PDT
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Posts: 71
Through Tidal Power/ Solar power/ Wind Power/ Geothermal power we will have enough power to run the world for YEARS to come. Ill try to find the article about some graduate that did a study proving that this is completely possible with the technology around today but it wont happen for years to come cause there is no profit. and as you know no profit its never gonna happen.
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Posts: 387
With the recent 7 billion population mark, I'm worried that we're straying dangerously close to the earth's carrying capacity. This doesn't mean it's the end though. We just need to start applying some human inginuity.
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Looks like Vulcanism most definitely caused the biggest extinction ever.

And the new age for the extinction of 252.28 million years puts it within a mere few tens of thousands of years of the humongous lava outpourings that formed large deposits of volcanic rock known as the Siberian Traps. "We think the timing is consistent with the Siberian Traps eruptions being the major cause of the extinctions," Erwin says.
Edited by Ponera on 11/20/2011 10:43 AM PST
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Volcanic activity has put out peanuts of CO2 comparatively, to the millions of years of carbon sequestering which exists in oil fields.

I don't think you understand the scale of the Deccan Traps. We're talking KILOMETERS thick lava. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deccan_traps
Check it out, it's short and definitely relates to the issue of CO2 and temperature rise. It's well noted, infact, that before the comet hit 65 Million years ago, ecosystem diversity was dropping. This climate change, from this massive vulcanism, is a good candidate for a contributing factor.

If volcanic activity was an explanation for any significant amount of current CO2 levels, or growth of CO2 levels, there would be spikes in the numbers after every eruption. There isn't. CO2 increase is a smooth climb.

I'm not saying it's a current one, I'm saying that massive CO2 emissions have happened naturally in the past and life persisted. Mind you, there was a pretty serious extinction event with each...one of which was up to 75% (or more) of all life.

"Alarmists" are not in 'full blown retard mode,' people are alarmed because there is very good reason to -be- alarmed.

Al Gore is an example of an Alarmist. He is retard mode. Just as an example of what calibre I was referring to.

This is why I wish 'global warming' hadn't been used to describe it at first.

No kidding! Now conservative !@#$% think it's been discredited because of a misnomer. >:(

Bitterly cold winters are not a contra-indication of climate change - in fact, the record breaking winters are another symptom -of- climate change, as the change in the climate is leading to disruptions in weather systems, causing increased extremes across the board.

I know. Climate change is happening, but the amount that is Anthropogenic leaves a wide margin for error.

The ocean is actually the worlds largest CO2 'sink' and holds a LOT of it.
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