Topic
patch 1.5 balance
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Edited by Death on 10/18/11 4:14 PM (PDT)
In patch 1.5 balance changes should be made to allow the game more room to evolve.
Terran
Marine Orbital Command Zerg
Ultralisk Infesters Protoss
Mother Ship Colossus |
TerranRavenStarting cost lowed to 100 / 150 down from 100 / 200 minerals and gas.Auto-Turret HP reduced form 50 down form 150, Duration reduced to 40 sec down form 180 secMarineCombat Shield upgrade requires the armory Orbital CommandScan no longer acts as detection base lineHi-Sec Auto Tracking upgrade now grants Scan detection I don't like these as you're actually reducing the options from terrans. I get it zerg want to see the oh so scary raven more. You'll actually see it less with these changes though. The auto turret is the offensive/defensive spell to use till we get enough for a SM. Ya it prob doesn't need to last 3 min but a lower hp would be practically useless, especially one as low as 50 (this thing can't be spammed as easy as IT's and it isn't mobile after spawned.. prob why it lasts so long.) I also think your duration is def too short for this spell (you're actually forcing terrans to get every damn upgrade for the raven not matter what purpose we want it to serve.) The orbital command thing is kinda weird. If you want terran to be like zerg and toss with detection ... make them like zerg and toss. You can do this by making our mobile detector come out at teir 2 (factory) and either the hp of the ovy or the cloaking abilities of the obs and than.. THAN you can remove cloak detection from scan and emp.. and prob raven since we'd need a cheaper detector as well as the teir switch. The marine nerf would holy hell kill just bout any rine aggression mid game before medics come out... once medics come (slightly before the armory) the need for shield decreases drastically. You're actually better off just removing the shield upgrade as it has no reason or use in or from an armory. For zerg you were a bit nicer, however I don't like like "•Infesters can now only have 2 Infested Terrans active at one time" It makes the spell clunky especially since it has such a low energy cost.. it's like why is it so cheap yet I only get to us it 2 at a time? And how am I suppost to watch and keep track of how often I can use it from each infestor.. ya kinda weird for a spell to be stuck with a limit. Now my toss opinions .. I actually don't like either of these .. and once again you're trying to nerf a unit so you can open up doors to evolving? The mothership idea I orginally agreed with before the last NP range nerf.. now I actually am for the fact that ultras are the only ones that are immune to it. And the colossus nerf is just kinda lame. It may be strong be a strong unit but nerfing it like this and I don't think you'll see many toss run to this unit anymore. I would rather not see it die and I would like to see it be keep being able to perform its role well.. in other words I would rather see this unit as strong (or op whatever floats your boat) than killed. All in all if you like posting suggestions I would actually like to see you put more thought into it (from all sides.. come on you know you don't need to be a terran hater) and possibly to some theory on how this would effect the match up.. let us know the damn reason you're doing some of this and make sure that reason supports what you're trying to kill (terrans obv :) ) Than actually test it... yes you can do this kind of stuff with the blizzard tools and than you can tell people like me to !@#$ because you're now gosu positive and there's not a shed of a monkeys butt that I can just say NO without having to actually test it out myself :) |
Zzzz another nerf bat Terran thread. Auto turrets are static, which means all you need to do is micro AWAY from them and they are useless. Ravens are inaccessible because they require a tech lab and are gas-heavy and all of their upgrades are too, buffing a raven by 50 gad won't change much, as you won't save much gas because you only get a few Ravens if any. OC loses detection = dt rush every game. OC scan isn't that good, it lasts for a few sceonds and again, all one need to to totally negate it is MICRO AWAY or just split your DTs. Nerfing Combat shields?! Are you serious, they are the WORST upgrade. Shielded marines lose to upgraded zerglings, it makes almost no difference. Yes, a 100/100 tech upgraded unit loses to it's equivalent Tier 1 unit without upgrades. |
First off, creep speed bonus is 30% as of right now. Hydralisks recieve additional speed bonus on creep compaired to other zerg units so he is correct in 50% down to 30%. Just wanted to point that out. |
First off, creep speed bonus is 30% as of right now. As a matter of fact, creep speed bonus is 50% as of right now Source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hydralisk "Speed multiplier on creep: 1.5 or 50%" |
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As a zerg player even I can see your bias. That aside almost none of these will work
-Raven -Starting cost lowed to 100 / 150 down from 100 / 200 minerals and gas. -Auto-Turret HP reduced form 50 down form 150, Duration reduced to 40 sec down form -180 sec Lowering the cost is an ok move, but honestly i feel as if this unit is largely unexplored. If this got it on the battlefield more it might be worth it but it could be too cheap in the long run, definitely worth testing though. As for the Auto turret that is too much of a decrease WAY too much. Reduce HP by 30 to 120 and duration from 180 to 90 would be a fair nerf. That being said you have to remember that auto turrets cost 50 energy. The only real nerf that would make sense is duration as these things last forever and even longer after upgraded. -Marine -Combat Shield upgrade requires the armory This would help greatly with annoying stim timing pushes but they're not as common anymore. If this was to happen you would have to give a small buff to a factory unit. -Orbital Command -Scan no longer acts as detection base line -Hi-Sec Auto Tracking upgrade now grants Scan detection No, this is an important thing for terran to have and this is only vaugely justified with the raven buff above. Make scans cost more energy if you really want it to be strategically used instead of just a panic button to use when your not MULEing. Zerg -Hydralisk -Base movement speed changed to 2.88 up form 2.25 -Creep speed bones changed to 30% down form 50% Just giving them this speed upgrade is ridiculous. If it was an in game upgrade perhaps but i cant see this being changed right away. Perhaps if it was a smaller upgrade like to 2.35 or 2.4 it could be tested. -Ultralisk -Base movement speed changed to 3.72 up form 2.95 -Collision radius lowed to 0.8125 down form 1 These things would be fast as hell. We're talking just .48 slower then speedlings. Collision radius change might be worth it but I believe it has been said that they wont be changing any collision on units (i dont know why it could fix some problems easily it seems) -Infesters -Infesters can now only have 2 Infested Terrans active at one time Perhaps with the speed buffs above this would make sense. If you really wanted this to be considered it should have been something like a half second cool down on IT but 2 per infestor which at max energy can launch 8 normally is just dumb. Protoss -Mother Ship -Immune to snare, stun, and mind control effects. Makes sense but now zerg has one less counter AND zerg is the most vulnerable to the MS already... worth testing i suppose but not necessary. -Colossus -Linear Splash length is reduced from 2 to 1.6 I don't know about that, it just makes the unit less effective instead of requiring more strategy. Perhaps lowering the rate of fire with a little extra damage to fit that? or adjusting the range upgrade a bit. |
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lol i was see the 3.7 move speed ultras just whizzing around the battlefield ROFL
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You would make ravens too strong. Ravens are good. Seeker missile is still bad. Your cost suggestion would make the raven too strong in TvP.
Turrets are fine. Combat shields requiring armory is too harsh. It is unnecessary and silly. Already we see Terran players less commonly going for heavy rax play and more towards reactor openings purely because marines cannot handle zergling produce. The five second, though it sounds significant has had a huge impact on TvZ. Scan -- even if you were to reduce the raven cost (which would still be immensely more expensive than other races' detectors), the raven still has an enormous build time. Hydralisks have great movement speed. Hydralisks are only as good as your creepspread and your ability to marine ranged units. Stop using them like zerglings and start using them like the expensive perma-stimmed marines that they are. Ultra base speed reduced is stupid. They need that speed. The collision radius is also silly. You do realize their strengths at breaking siege tank lines in open ground comes partially from their ability to absorb splash damage and keep it from hitting other units, don't you? They simply cannot be used in bottle-necks. That is the only fault of the player. Infested terran are very good, but I don't approve of this limitation. Mothership - I don't think NP is problem if that is what your concern is. Collosus - I think the strength of the collosus comes from the fact that it shares upgrades with warp gate units. This is the greatest design flaw of the unit. If I had it my way, it's weapon upgrades would come from the air unit attack upgrade in order to make the carrier a more viable option. I don't think this would ever happen, and it would be widely unpopular with current protoss players due to the current convenience. tl;dr: Collosus has major design flaw -- shared upgrades with warp gate units. |
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you cannot honestly say this will make growth by buffing the crap out of zerg and nerfing the crap out of everyone else if you look up stats on the top 5, 25 and 100 players protoss is the lowest rated race its rediculous to say that zerg is "too bad" you are just not good
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Edited by DarkLegend on 2/10/12 8:54 PM (PST)
platinum people talk balance true and both are legitimate. Believe it or not a Platinum player can talk some balance just not from his experience on the ladder (not to say that all do it well), a masters player can begin to use his experience as a small part of his argument. what is not legitimate is anyone other than David Kim making a preliminary list of changes for patch 1.5. VERY few people in the world have enough knowledge about starcraft as whole to do this well, not even most professional players. |
