StarCraft® II

Slight Ghost Nerf - EMP

What do people think about nerfing the EMP ability by having it lower shields and energy over time, instead of just instantly. For example, energy on units would decrease around the same rate that a defilers plague would deal damage in Starcraft 1, if anyone remembers .

IMO, this would change 2 important things:

1. Terran players would have to be proactive about EMPing other units, some time before the battle begins, instead of just instantly as the battle is occurring, or about to occur. If EMP happens during the battle, at least some templar/infestors will be able to get off their spells before reaching low energy.

2. Protoss/Zerg players would be able to make that critical decision about whether to engage or retreat, depending on how damaging the EMP was. As we know, it is quite difficult to retreat from a stim Rine/Marauder army, and therefore this decision is very important.

Obviously, my biased "Protossian" opinion is that balance would be improved by this change. Protoss shields and energy are extremely important during this match-up, however both are completely negated by just a couple emp's during the battle. Other opinions on this?
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That might be too much of a nerf to EMP.

I think theres a legitimate argument that Terran needs EMP in late-game PvT. Afterall, Colossi do melt MMM balls extremely fast.

The problem is EMP isnt a late game ability like it should be. EMP is available far earlier and for far cheaper than it should be.
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LOL slight
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That might be too much of a nerf to EMP.

I think theres a legitimate argument that Terran needs EMP in late-game PvT. Afterall, Colossi do melt MMM balls extremely fast.

The problem is EMP isnt a late game ability like it should be. EMP is available far earlier and for far cheaper than it should be.


Well it's not that EMP would become obsolete. It just means that the EMP's would have to be cast a little bit before the battle. And to your point about Colossus late game, if Terran is ready with enough vikings, EMP is not as essential, though still quite potent ;-)
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If the protoss gets a few spread out obs, ghost become obsolete against colossus ball.
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10/20/2011 05:14 PMPosted by MacNCheese
If the protoss gets a few spread out obs, ghost become obsolete against colossus ball.


Ghost are not what you should be depending on to defeat a Colossus ball...
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Sure you need vikings, but forcefields well they are pretty good...
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If the protoss gets a few spread out obs, ghost become obsolete against colossus ball.


Ghosts are never obsolete in TvP. Its ignorant to even suggest that.
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10/20/2011 04:48 PMPosted by Veritas
lower shields and energy over time

lower shields over time, as in like 2 in game seconds. instantly wipe out energy cause if you see that emp go off and your energy is draining you can pop off a good 3-4 ff before energy gone. wouldn't really seem fair. there was a thread exactly like this about 2 weeks ago.
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At least make it so it doesn't reveal?
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lol i just played you...

anyways, this + no detection would probably be enough. It would stop ghosts from spamming EMPs on 1 target, which would mean that we can actually throw up ffs/guardian shiled/storms before we lose all our energy.

Bliz will probably end up reducing their build time by 5 or something...><
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The issue I have with EMP is not its power per se, but the fact that it is specifically anti-protoss. It would be like giving void rays 3x damage to buildings that can fly. OK so terran needs an AOE attack, granted, but please may HoTS make it something other than EMP.
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How about EMP doesn't do damage and the ghost is just an anti-spell caster like it's suppose to be. If Terran needs a AOE unit then give them one but having one unit that counters everything is silly.
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I still don't see why Ghosts need an ability that specifically grants them a bonus against Protoss.
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EMP was specifically anti-Protoss in SC1. Thats not the problem. The problem is that EMP is available at T1.75 when it should be a T3 ability like it was in SC1.
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I will concede that Terran need EMP to deal with HT's, otherwise they'd have no way to handle Psi Storm. Unfortunately, the Ghost in TvP shares the same problem that the Infestor did in ZvWhatever: too general-purpose. It doesn't matter what build the Protoss is going, Ghost will be good or at least not a bad choice unless they're doing crazy-fast Ghost.

It also leads to a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for Shield upgrades, where if you don't upgrade you're behind, or if you do it can be entirely wasted money (and quite a lot of money).

The Energy denial part of the spell is key and shouldn't get touched, but Blizzard is really quite free to play around with the Shield damage as it can ONLY affect TvP and will have no bearing on TvT or TvZ. If EMP removed, say 50% of shield from a unit it would help the Ghost counter Templar tech a little more (by increasing damage against Archons) while retaining the useful features versus DT & HT. It would stop EMP from totally invalidating Shield upgrades and Hardened Shields, and EMP will still be good vs. Protoss by neutralizing Sentries, Phoenixes, and Templar. It just won't be such an all-purpose "always build this unit" unit.
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I will concede that Terran need EMP to deal with HT's, otherwise they'd have no way to handle Psi Storm. Unfortunately, the Ghost in TvP shares the same problem that the Infestor did in ZvWhatever: too general-purpose. It doesn't matter what build the Protoss is going, Ghost will be good or at least not a bad choice unless they're doing crazy-fast Ghost.

It also leads to a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for Shield upgrades, where if you don't upgrade you're behind, or if you do it can be entirely wasted money (and quite a lot of money).

The Energy denial part of the spell is key and shouldn't get touched, but Blizzard is really quite free to play around with the Shield damage as it can ONLY affect TvP and will have no bearing on TvT or TvZ. If EMP removed, say 50% of shield from a unit it would help the Ghost counter Templar tech a little more (by increasing damage against Archons) while retaining the useful features versus DT & HT. It would stop EMP from totally invalidating Shield upgrades and Hardened Shields, and EMP will still be good vs. Protoss by neutralizing Sentries, Phoenixes, and Templar. It just won't be such an all-purpose "always build this unit" unit.


that would #*## archons >.<
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that would #*## archons >.<


Not as hard as you'd think. First EMP strips away 175 shield, second would take away 88. Third consecutive would take away 44. All told the Archon has lost 307 from 3 consecutive EMP's: not much different than right now.

Ghost & EMP become more a support unit, aimed at eliminating casters. They keep their power against Sentries, Dark Templar (counter the Cloak, you've pretty much countered the DT), and High Templar. They still do some damage against the rest of the Protoss army, and could now help with sniping tech*

*might have to be different for buildings to avoid making Nexus-sniping too easy.

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that would #*## archons >.<


Not as hard as you'd think. First EMP strips away 175 shield, second would take away 88. Third consecutive would take away 44. All told the Archon has lost 307 from 3 consecutive EMP's: not much different than right now.

Ghost & EMP become more a support unit, aimed at eliminating casters. They keep their power against Sentries, Dark Templar (counter the Cloak, you've pretty much countered the DT), and High Templar. They still do some damage against the rest of the Protoss army, and could now help with sniping tech*

*might have to be different for buildings to avoid making Nexus-sniping too easy.


Perhaps EMP should remove 50% of shields, or 100 shields, whichever is less?
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Personally, i think the problem is that against protoss, the EMP basically doubles in effectiveness against toss casters. I think the EMP should deal 100 damage total, that goes first through shields, then energy. This would leave EMP powerful, but not as totally debilitating. I feel that its so frustrating as toss to get hit, and then just be so helpless. This would leave toss' casters more energy so they can actually make an effort against ghosts.

Also, maybe this would force terrans to use their invisible sniper special ops unit as its feaking meant to be used, instead of just dumping them in their army like a common soldier, with the added function of instantly halving enemies hp, AND buring half or more of their energy.

This also wouldn't be that drastic of a nerf, as the two toss' main casters, HT's and sentries, only have 40 sheilds, so it would do a minimum of 60 energy damage.
Plus, since vortex is kinda slow to cast, it wouldn't allow a few low tier units to completely counter the most expensive , both in resources and time, unit in the game (the mothership)
Edited by LethalChild on 10/20/2011 11:49 PM PDT
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