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From IGN's review: Regardless of your level of exposure to the fiction, it's difficult to ignore the eye-rolling cliches and talk of prophecies being fulfilled, and the overabundance of 1980s action movie-style macho posturing and cheesiness

From EuroGamer's review: But the dialogue often falls flat and the characters are either clichéd, banal or both - Raynor in particular, sadly.

They just say it's there, they don't make a fuss about it.

11/13/2011 10:39 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf

Does it have to include stupid posts and threads as well? You may be embarassed by the sheer idiocy of the "criticism" WoL has been getting. This is the Internet, you know.

I know there are a lot of idiotic complaints out there, I have even defended WoL on occasion about these. Like how Guass rifles eject shells and why Tychus shot didn't kill Raynor.

I am pretty sure you know by now my two main gripes with the story. Cut scenes (mostly felt boring and uninspired) and almost every time Raynor opens his mouth (cheesy dialogue)

I know others have complaints about Overmind retcon and Tassadar coming back to life, among other things like the prophecy in general and the reason this thread was made.

What I would do is have two catagories of threads. Threads that you think are valid complaints that you defended against and threads that you would classify as idiotic criticism.

The only reason I asked you to count the threads is because I am hoping that you will read what you have been posting to people. How condescending and rude you can be when people are here to talk about the same thing you are. You should be glad to even have people to talk to about the story, most other story forums for games are dead or non existent. Even though you may not think it, I appreciate you Johnny. I appreciate all posters who actually give a damn about the story. If you didn't care, you wouldn't complain/defend right?

Just be nicer to eachother people, lets have good fellowship and mature discussions.

I don't think they'd include things about lame dialogue, cheesy characters, and an abundance of cliches if they didn't mean it. And IGN in particular seems to focus on the gameplay of the campaign and the great mission design when speaking positively about the single player.

Oh, and what happened to Daggoth anyway? Was he banned for some reason?

11/13/2011 10:41 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf

Yeah, I recall it happened before to some truly imbecilic WoL hater. In that regard, I find Daggoth's banishment a tad puzzling; granted, he was not exactly an angel but he didn't strike me as stupid or anything.

I felt that Daggoth was very sarcastic and often took seriousness out of good discussions.

Why don't you go count them Johnny? I want the exact number of threads that have been made to complain about the WoL story in some way or another that you have posted in to defend the story.

I wouldnt look in the dump for something clean.

11/13/2011 11:02 AMPosted by Fleetlord

I am pretty sure you know by now my two main gripes with the story. Cut scenes (mostly felt boring and uninspired) and almost every time Raynor opens his mouth (cheesy dialogue)

Blizzard games should come with a warning for lactose-intolerant players.

I know others have complaints about Overmind retcon and Tassadar coming back to life, amoung other things like the prophecy in general and the reason this thread was made.

What I would do is have two catagories of threads. Threads that you think are valid complaints that you defended against and threads that you would classify as idiotic criticism.

To be honest, I find most complaints idiotic and/or hypocritical, so I wouldn't know.

Just be nicer to each other people, lets have good fellowship and mature discussions.

That's usually my goal.

Brat, that was your worst retort to one of my posts.

Are you passively conceding I have a point, or were you having an off-night?

Most of the people that go deep into any lore will find flaws, which is what you guys are doing. If you really think the flaws in 1/3 of SC2's story is a major issue then why aren't you bringing up the flaws in SC and BW because you don't want to. Nothing is perfect and that alone should stop you're whining.

Do it. Bring up flaws. I dare you. I want to have that conversation, but no one will have it with me.

And another thing - is Etra such an ambiguous, androgynous name that you have to guess at my gender? Funny. Why would it even matter?

you have a point in the sense that you are hating the game for having aspects that are similar to BW, and hating the game for making a character with characteristics that fit him.


I've repeatedly brought up the flaws, but people tend to say things like "well thats not a big deal" and such, basically defend it exactly the same way that WoL defenders defend WoL.

11/13/2011 11:08 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf

Blizzard games should come with a warning for lactose-intolerant players.

See there you go again. Please explain to us why you like the cheesy dialogue? You already know why people don't like it. It is silly, immature, overused and takes away from the games atmosphere of you trying to win a war and save your civilization from being destroyed. Your turn, why is it good to have Raynor spew cheddar every time he opens his mouth?

I highly doubt that don't nobody cares about HotS and LotV especially with the traffic on the HotS forum and buzz about both of them.

Nope. That's not what I said. Please pay attention. What I said is that there are little to no complaints about only having 1/3 of the story. If people were complaining that WoL ended on a cliffhanger or that we don't know enough about the villains yet etc. then you could say to them that we only know 1/3 of the story and that it's too early to judge. We all realize that we only have part of the story. That's why our criticism focuses on the part of the story that we have so far.

We only get a taste of the SC2's story with WoL.

And we're commenting on that taste.

I don't hear you complaining about those things in SC and Bw even when they were more prominent in thsoe two.

No. Cheese wasn't absent in SC and BW, but it wasn't as prominent as in WoL. I've complained about Raynor's "Let's kick some butt!" line, his "Does that mean they'll send some backup?" line, the Lester and Sarge cutscene, and the DuGalle killing Stukov fiasco.

How is the Overmind a retcon

The Overmind was introduced and fleshed out one way in SC and then WoL tore all of that down and provided a completely new character for him that's incompatible with his character in SC. It would be like a new X Men series coming out and introducing Wolverine as never having had his trademark claws and regenerative healing factor. It would be like The Empire Strikes Back opening up and showing us a Han Solo with Force powers and a Luke Skywalker who's a rogue smuggler and a scoundrel.

You forget that the Strarcraft series is based around 80s sci-fi movies, which means you shouldn't be complaining.

SC had a great balance of serious moments and a serious plot and some goofy/cheesy moments. WoL tipped the balance by having way more cheese than substance. I'm okay with cheese as long as it's not the majority of the content.

Btw why aren't you complaing about the cheesy dialogue, ridiculous macho action cinematics, and inclusion of a stupid prophecy in LotR and episodes 4-6 because you don't want to.

Well, first of all I absolutely cannot stand LotR so I really couldn't care less how cheesy or ridiculous it was. Second, the original Star Wars trilogy doesn't have a prophecy and is very well balanced in terms of substance VS cheese/macho.

See there you go again. Please explain to us why you like the cheesy dialogue? Your turn, why is it good to have Raynor spew cheddar every time he opens his mouth?

It's fun and memorable, and it fits the "macho cowboy" attitude of the Terrans.

It is silly, immature, overused and takes away from the game's atmosphere of you trying to win a war and save your civilization from being destroyed.

Then don't play the game for the plot. Or play something else.

11/13/2011 11:26 AMPosted by Chrono

SC had a great balance of serious moments and a serious plot and some goofy/cheesy moments.

That's probably because SC didn't focus solely on the Terrans. HotS and LotV are likely to be darker and more serious... even though the Zerg and the Protoss are just as cheesy as the Terrans in their own way.

That's probably because SC didn't focus solely on the Terrans. HotS and LotV are likely to be darker and more serious... even though the Zerg and the Protoss are just as cheesy as the Terrans in their own way.

Rebel Yell was far more serious and more dark than WoL.

Yet your criticizing WoL for being 1/3 of a trilogy even when most critics don't comment on that 1/3.

No. You're not reading a thing I'm writing. Probably the one thing I'm not criticizing about WoL is that it's the first part of a trilogy.

It showed up a lot more in SW and BW, but why are you complaining when everything has cheesy stuff in them.

No it didn't.

Then why use LotR as an example. You need to rewatch episodes 4-6 especially when Yoda and Obi-wan talked about a prochecy of another jedi, which was Leia.

I used it as an example of a trilogy. And...there's no prophecy in the original series. The prophecy has nothing to do with Leia.

I'd respond to the rest of what you wrote, but I honestly don't think you're reading a single thing I'm writing.

How was Rebel Yell more serious and dark when that was the start of the Zerg and Protoss conflicts.

The Confederates test the psi emitter and zerg on their own people. The Confederates abandon their outer colonies to the zerg. Duke ignores Raynor's and the magistrate's requests for evac. Duke throws Raynor and the magistrate in prison for destroying infested buildings. Mengsk uses the psi emitter on Tarsonis, killing millions. Mengsk abandons Kerrigan and leaves her to be eaten by the zerg. Mengsk explodes on Raynor and reveals his true megalomaniacal colors. Tassadar is forced to incinerate the outer terran colonies. Raynor realizes that for all of his struggles he only succeeded in replacing tyranny with more tyranny.

So you go after WoL without touching SC and BW, which thats hypocrisy.

I already told you, I've posted complaints about SC and BW as well. In fact, I included some of those gripes in a post I made only a couple of hours ago or so.

You should stick with the examples that you know especially when Luke and Leia were part of the prophecy to take down the Empereor.

Where is this explained? Obi-Wan says to Yoda when Luke runs off to Bespin "That boy is our last hope..." then Yoda says "No...there is another." Where's the prophecy there?

And I'm not insulting you. Your responses have nothing to do with anything I post.

Rebel Yell was far more serious and darker than WoL.

Not really. The campaign's highlights (Desperate Measures and New Gettysburg) are indeed dark and serious, but the rest is generally lighthearted: Raynor makes corny jokes and sardonic quips, Chris Metzen as the Marine's VA really hams it up, the Jacobs Installation mission pays homage to Star Wars, Kerrigan's in-game introduction plays out like a vaudeville, the Dune Buggy Patrol and the Wraith Raid are definitely comical, and Duke spends most of his time being a goofy John Wayne caricature.

Oh yeah, and try taking things seriously when one of your most dramatic characters (Sarah Kerrigan) has silly acknowledgement lines such as "I *read* you, hur hur hur!" and "Been thinking the same thing!"

Oh yeah, and try taking things seriously when one of your most dramatic characters (Sarah Kerrigan) has silly acknowledgement lines such as "I *read* you, hur hur hur!" and "Been thinking the same thing!"

What's wrong with those...?