Topic
High Templar underpowered
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Its true. High Templar are underpowered. I see top pros who go HT tech make one mistake and instantly lose the game. It should be at least 2 mistakes. Mebbe thats just Protoss... mebbe Protoss is hardest race to play and it should stay that way... I dunno. But I sure would like to see a storm buff now that Kaydarain Amultet is gone from the game.
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If KA is removed, I would rather see psistorm radius increase to 2.
Note it is the T3 cast and needs research. Also it is dodgeable. |
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please see here
Protoss vs Terran casters |
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and they are nerfing ghosts? happy?
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It's sad to see Protoss nowadays needs the so-called "deathball". In SC1 protoss is designed to be powerful but low quantity. Now people need stalkers sea to win.
I wish Dragoon back, and also corsair. Meanwhile high templars should recover its 120 damage or increase to 2 radius, or I prefer a name "low" templars. Have no interest in Temples, give me back corsairs. |
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I do believe you can use Storm as a bait shield... if there is some unit that an enemy wants to get at, such as a Colossi, you can lay a storm down in the path to give your Colossi more breathing space.
Also I've never seen anyone "dodge" the initial burst damage of storm. They can walk out of the DoT radius, but not the first hit. |
I do believe you can use Storm as a bait shield... if there is some unit that an enemy wants to get at, such as a Colossi, you can lay a storm down in the path to give your Colossi more breathing space. Yeah it totally sucks that terrans have to stay in the storm to take 20 damage before than can walk out of it and not take the majority of the damage. It is totally fair that protoss can't dodge all 100 damage from an EMP. And GawdSed made so many factual errors. Storm is over 4 seconds not 3. The HP calculations are not accurate because terran has medivacs which are healing the army throughout. In reality the terran would stim before the fight starts and before the protoss can storm the majority of the units already have full HP again. Marine marauder with stim has movement speed of 3.325, which means you can move out of the entire storm radius in less than 1 second. If your reaction time is fast (you really should have <1 second reaction time), the most damage a unit would take in the storm is about 30 (this is if you have about 0.5 second reaction time). This means it still takes 3 shots for stalkers to kill a marine and 8 shots to kill a marauder. On the retrospective, stalkers take 80 undodgeable damage with the EMP. Stalker has 80 HP left which means a marauder can kill it with 5 hits (4 hits with +1 weapons). Not to mention that stalkers cost much more and marauders shoot much faster. |
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Not only is storm underpowered compared to EMP in PvT but high templars are extremely underpowered compared to ghosts...
HT stats: Cost: 50/150 Movespeed: 1.875 HP: 40 shield/40base hp = 80 total Sight: 10 No attack Can feedback, storm, morph into a completely different unit. Storm has friendly damage... Ghost stats: Cost: 150/100 Movespeed: 2.25 HP: 100 Sight: 11 6.7 base dps, 13.4 dps against light. (That's almost 1.5x more against light than a stimmed marine) Can snipe, emp, cloak, nuke. HT is an utter complete joke compared to the other casters and there's no reason to make it instead of collosus, unless you need to counter mutas quickly with archon. |
Not only is storm underpowered compared to EMP in PvT but high templars are extremely underpowered compared to ghosts... You did not mention the fact HT needs 200/200 to research psistorm, but EMP needs NO RESEARCH AT ALL. |
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First off this is not a Ghost > High Templar thread. We all know the Ghost is better than the High Templar because the Ghost is suppose to counter the High Templar, but this doesn't excuse the fact that the High Templar is underpowered.
First off, all the other main casters for Terran and Protoss doesn't need to research their AOE spell. The casters for Terran is tier 1.5/2 while the caster for Zerg is 2 and the High Templar is a tier 3 caster. Secondly, both the caster for Terran and Zerg can cloak/burrow to hid themselves and have a movement speed above 2. The High Templar is not fast enough to run away or have a cloak/burrow ability. The next argument is that High Templar can morph into an Archon. It takes two High Templar to do that. It also removes the ability to cast Psionic Storm or Feedback when transformed into an Archon. Psionic Storm can kill a unit, but what are the chances that you will sit a unit in an entire storm? One Hydralisk sitting in a storm will not kill it because of its regeneration. One Marine will survive running out of a storm (even when stimmed) when they have a Medivac healing it. Protoss is the only race that doesn't have energy upgrades for their casters (High Templar, Phoenix, Mothership, and Sentry). Terran has energy upgrades for units that doesn't even need it like the Medivac. |
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Edited by LethalChild on 11/16/11 9:32 AM (PST)
There are a lot of things i would like to see for the HT, but what it really needs is a hp/ms buff.
Just give it the same hp/shields as the DT (40/80) which means Ghosts still counter HT's, but it's much more durable against other units. Or heck, just give them like +5 shield armor. Then against units like marines, zergling, to a degree zealots, the HT does really well, but against ghosts and roaches it's still weak. It fits better lore-wise also, HT's are supposed to be a higher tier of warrior than zealots, yet they're @#$%ing fragile. Give them the armor boost, which means enemies actually have to build counters to one of the longest tech paths in the game. Edit: Even if Blizz has to raise the cost to, say, 75/150 or 100/150, that'd be fine with me, it's worth it to make them less fragile |
The High Templar is NOT a tier 3 unit. It can easily be fielded at the same time as infestors, costs less, and serves similar functionality. It is much cheaper and faster to produce than real tier 3 units like brood lords, ultralisks, carriers, or thors. Archons are much closer to tier 3.
Bad example; a hydralisk is slow enough that psionic storm does devastating damage to it. Otherwise, I largely agree with your points. |
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Storm is fine where it is at, what makes this hole EMP vs Storm is that EMP and snipe are range 10. Storm is range 9. HT are slow, terran get a good time frame to snipe or emp the templar as they try to get into range to use storm, and since storm need to be placed on the army where snipe doesnt need to be just needs to hit the radius of the HT to make them useless. After 1.4.2 radius decreased but means you can hit that HT with EMP at about range 11.5 well placed EMP takes out templar as they try to storm.
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Storm is fine where it is at, what makes this hole EMP vs Storm is that EMP and snipe are range 10. Storm is range 9. HT are slow, terran get a good time frame to snipe or emp the templar as they try to get into range to use storm, and since storm need to be placed on the army where snipe doesnt need to be just needs to hit the radius of the HT to make them useless. After 1.4.2 radius decreased but means you can hit that HT with EMP at about range 11.5 well placed EMP takes out templar as they try to storm. Protoss have two major problem: 1. Ghost EMP OP 2. Mass muta OP. |
