StarCraft® II

Terran is so OP...Zerg tactics are useless!

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Posts: 728
11/08/2011 01:17 PMPosted by Drhorrible
bayul, ignore kaguro: sorry kaguro but most of the high league advice for lowbies is crap. We are trying to do the mechanics stuff better while also trying not to get roflstomped.


I disagree. Kaguro listed simple mechanics that are key to winning. I'm low and I try to do that stuff every game.

Keeping a high drone count and spreading creep for map vision for example are not advanced tactics, and can mean the diff between a win or loss.
Edited by Heiwanshang on 11/8/2011 5:56 PM PST
Posts: 2,805
Bayul, do the following:

1. Send starting overlord somewhere near their base where it can't get shot at.
2. Early expand (15/15, 14/14/21, 11/18, w/e floats your boat).
3. Build 4 lings, park 1 outside his base, 1 in the back of his natural, other two at whatever watchtowers make sense for that map.
4. Get a relatively early ling speed off of 1 gas, don't grab any more geysers until you've started your lair, or are close to starting your lair.
5. Drone up until both bases are saturated, if your ling at his front dies and he's not expanding, start making units/spines/queens (whichever makes the most sense for the units coming).
6. Once both bases are saturated, start making whatever units you want.

Within these 6 steps, focus on injects and not getting supply blocked, and drop macro hatches as necessary. When you lose, watch the replay and see what it was and what you could have done to stop it (there's always something you can do if you know its coming, the only hard part sometimes is figuring out that it is indeed coming). You will lose games, but over time you'll improve. If you can execute the above 6 steps there's no reason you shouldn't stomp your average Platinum player.

Also, its thread titles and posts like this that give lowbies such a bad rep. Do the community a favor and play more than 20 or so games before declaring something OP.
Posts: 1,913
bayul, ignore kaguro: sorry kaguro but most of the high league advice for lowbies is crap.


lol. Its not crap most of the time. You just have to understand your OPPONENTS ability in your league and play into that.

Most low league players spend more than they need in defense. Most go 1 base for longer than they should. Most are 1 trick ponies.
With zerg being already not-so-viable with early aggression, its silly to think a lowbie zerg is going to have much sucess with a baneling bust, roach rush, etc etc. Expecially when the defending player is probably turtling 1 base bancheese.

So when you hear a higher level player tell you to scout, drone, macro, defend, then kill him in that mid-game sweet spot.. There is a reason for it. If you learn to survive the one base t/p play, you will cruise to plat/low diamond.
At the higher diamond/master level. You can start 1 basing a bit again, you can cheese more effectively, and rushes are more viable. Because players are more refined in their builds, their mechanics are better, execution is better.

You just have to remember you don't need 2 bases worth of drones if hes on 1 base. You just need enough to keep up to him and his 1 base. Like 1.3-1.5 bases worth of saturation at most. There are droning windows you will become comfortable with. But you'll never learn those windows until you drone and die because you went too far, or too little.

I was referring to the advice macro, scout, then kill. DUH this is what you do, its obvious to anyone who has their eyes open. Just saying this advice doesn't help at all, be specific, the devil is in the details and there are those of us in the low leagues who seriously don't understand how to scout, or plan attacks with our comps. Me personally, i never know what toss is doing or where they are coming from. so i repeat, be specific, give advice that is overly explained. macro is bad advice, at 1000 min build macro hatch is better, it has definite trigger and is something that is easy to improve too.

bayul, what is your code, i can add you
Edited by Drhorrible on 11/8/2011 8:01 PM PST
Posts: 13,005
Beating Terran is simple as 1, 2, 3:

1)Ling
2)Bling
3)Muta

Yeah, and then they get a siege position in the main choke of Blizzard's terrible maps, and you can't do anything.
Posts: 5,307
Cant tell if you're trolling but:

All-ins/ Cheese is not really Zerg's strong point



All of ZvT can be summed up in the Zerg trying to get 80-90 Drones as fast as possible without dying


If the Terran is camping in his expansions, let him. Just expand some more yourself.


When the Terran is pushing out with his death-ball, engage him BEFORE he gets close to your base so that you have time to re-macro. If you wait until the Terran is in yo base before trying to trade 200/200 armies with him, you might as well just leave the game
Posts: 1,513
Dude, ZvT is EZ PZ.

Less QQ more L2macro.
Posts: 31
Zerg is insanely op vs terran. ling, Bling and muta pretty much kills any and all things terran can make. I win 80% vs t and p but maybe 10 tops vs z. If were so op explain that. Ive done every build we can do just to get rolled by a zerg I out macroed and microed
Posts: 13,005
11/09/2011 03:20 PMPosted by Mavrick
Zerg is insanely op vs terran. ling, Bling and muta pretty much kills any and all things terran can make.

Marine/Tank/Medivac can literally beat everything a Zerg makes.

11/09/2011 03:20 PMPosted by Mavrick
Ive done every build we can do just to get rolled by a zerg I out macroed and microed

Sounds like you need to learn how to macro and micro better.
Posts: 136

Marine/Tank/Medivac can literally beat everything a Zerg makes.



lol no it doesn't. If that were true Zerg would have a 0% winrate vs Terran
Posts: 13,005

Marine/Tank/Medivac can literally beat everything a Zerg makes.



lol no it doesn't. If that were true Zerg would have a 0% winrate vs Terran

It balanced since apparently Ling/Bling/Muta apparently pretty much beats all things Terran can make.

But seriously, with the right unit control, Marine/Tank/Medivac can beat anything Zerg. If you doubt that, you're dumb.
Posts: 136
With the right unit control any decent composition is bound to do well, not just MTM. You're assuming the zerg gets a poor composition and has little to no micro.

I don't think I've ever seen it do great against Z once we get to T3.
Posts: 634
Macro Up, and contain them, make sure they dont get 3 base.
Posts: 326
Macro better Oo
Posts: 1,305

I send +10 Initial Mutalisks and (just 2--then more) defensive air turrets inflict too much harm. If the Mutalisks survive the anti air barrage, the Marines back up too quickly to harass the mineral line.


Have you tried overlord drop? If you get something dropped in, it'll be like harassing w/ 20-30 mutas, even if he has 5+ AA turrets, because those ground units that just got on the ground, and are ripping some SCVs to shreds (especially w/ speedlings and if their mineral line is wide open past AA).


The other day a block of stimmed Terran pulverized a cloud of endgame Broood lords in seconds! it was so quick, it seemed like a glitch. They just moved in, 1, 2, 3 they are all gone.


uh... ground units? usually smart to have roaches in the front line in any game as zerg.

If you keep brood lords away from the DPS/AA, more so if you have melee ups, they can tear basically any ground units apart with ease, heck, might even see the terran die as fast as you said those brood lords did instead of the brood lords.


Is there any sense for them being so slow?


ya, a range of 9.5 and their ability to eat ground units as I mentioned above.


IF Terran can have ranged units for just minerals...why do Zerg pay extra for less hardy versions?


Well, for starters, roaches can usually tank any damage rines usually dish out, and speedlings, a non-gas unit (past speed buff), can do quite a bit of damage when used right.

Also, if terran forgets to buff rine attack, though that probably never happens, armor maxed out ultras can take on rines easy (there's a vid showing 6 maxed ultras killing 200 rines with HP buff on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odO6fNo9-P8).

And don't forget, infestor fungal growth can slow marines, AND kill them with ease.

There are ways to mess with marines, just look out for medivac drops, micro those banes properly, and you can get around them.


How do I shoot web? Is it even shootable?


In time, with the right tactics at the right times, you may come to command the zerg to swing across tall buildings with the greatest of ease. Or at least you'll probably make a lot more dead marines then before.
Posts: 2,229
Brood Lords get through Turltleing Terrans...What I find the most reason why I can't get Zlings in for early Harassment is because I spend too much time trying to find their god damn base. On 1v1 maps, 6-pool=Me win. =)
Posts: 171
I'm in the same league as you, and I haven't really been having trouble with terran :/

I usually open 14-gas 14-pool for safety, then expand off of that. for the early/mid game, I try to drone as HEAVILY as possible, and expand like a boss. I build 6-8 lings, and morph them into bane-lings to have around for defense, but other than that build no offensive units. the key is good scouting/map vision. when you see the death ball start moving out, pump lings from your now-many expansions. That's how usually deal with their first push or two.

That's my general plan, then I get infestors, then transition into ultralisks or (less often) brood lords... I completely skip mutalisks, because I feel they die WWAAAAYYY too easy if you misclick just for a second...

I'm not very good either, but this is my general play style against terran, hope it helped!!!
Posts: 581
Watch Day9's "Play like Nestea" guide. I don't think I've lost a single game VS Terrans since I watched that. Basically it's just all about knowing the Terran race and knowing what they CAN do to you. Always go 15 hatch and put your second overlord at the entrance to your natural to spot anything that comes up your ramp.

If you see an SCV come up your natural ramp but not into your main, it's imperative that you immediately send a drone or 2 to kill it while it builds the bunker, because if you don't, you'll end up with a bunker right next to your hatch and it will get a marine in it before your lings come out!

Generally just make 2 lings first, and your double queens (if you aren't getting marine / bunker pressure, and if you are make SURE you don't overreact or you'll end up behind on drones.) Start your creep spread with one of the queens (then get a 3rd, they're sooo useful against hellions, banshees, or even low numbers of marines) and send your lings to his natural area. Keep an eye on them and know what's coming out. Get a baneling nest as soon as you have your speed done for lings.

Poke alittle with your lings early on, but don't commit and lose them, you're just looking for a marine count. If it's above 3-4 you probably aren't getting hellion hit, so drop an evo cham incase banshees show up (if you hit the ~9min mark and he's still on one base, you might wanna drop a spore at each base just incase he's waiting to show his banshees till he has enough to do some damage (this is if you haven't seen indications of mech.)

If he's hitting with early hellions, your queen / lings will take care of them with good micro but you might want to drop a spine incase he decides to really dedicate to hellions.

Just keep an eye on him and know what's coming, and when he's moving to take his natural you should be grabbing your third and getting your spire up. Mutas are just incredible against the standard marine / mech, since you can use em to snipe any tanks that aren't defended with marines or that fall behind (most Terrans below diamond will just send all their units on an attackmove command to outside your base, so snipe the tanks that fall behind) then use banelings to decimate his marines :).

Hope this helps! But seriously watch Day9's "play like Nestea" video, it's sooo worth it :).
Posts: 902
11/09/2011 03:41 PMPosted by TropicalBob
Zerg is insanely op vs terran. ling, Bling and muta pretty much kills any and all things terran can make.

Marine/Tank/Medivac can literally beat everything a Zerg makes.

Ive done every build we can do just to get rolled by a zerg I out macroed and microed

Sounds like you need to learn how to macro and micro better.
this lol. and maybe your unit comps suck in ZvZ
Posts: 6,385
Sorry to pile on the advice, but if you want something that will help in all aspects of the game day9 daily 360 is excellent. Hotkeys FTW :P

bayul, ignore kaguro: sorry kaguro but most of the high league advice for lowbies is crap. We are trying to do the mechanics stuff better while also trying not to get roflstomped.
Hard microtasking is hard :(
If you want to help, kaguro, keep advice specific to the question, something like mutas behind a rine tank push to pick off tanks while lings and blings roll in the front.


And you will continue to lose as you attempt to improve your mechanics until you get that epiphany and break through that wall. It's not that the advice is bad, it's that you're bad. Everything he said was correct. If you want to get better, you're going to have to learn drone timings and postponing unit production as much as possible. If you constantly make units as Zerg, you're gonna feel golden in Bronze/Silver, and then realize you're actually putting yourself insanely behind. Things like positioning and strategies are great, but you don't need to focus on that in Bronze/Silver. Focus on macro, defending cheese, learning timings, and the rest will come.
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