StarCraft® II

The Ghost, EMP, and Protoss

Posts: 171
We all know that the Ghost is strong against Protoss because of EMP. I am not complaining about Ghosts, nor am I saying they should be buffed/nerfed/changed in any fashion. I am merely asking an honest question as it relates to game balance as a whole.

Why does Ghost EMP remove Protoss shield AND energy?

Are there any other units in the game who's abilities affect a race as a whole and not just serve as a "counter" to a specific unit/set of units?

I mean, I can think of situations in PvT where there are certain units I just don't build as a result of my opponent's build i.e. if I see mass marine, I am not going to build mass immortal. Aside from the having to allocate resources to build Ghosts (just like every other tech path,) it seems like there's never a PvT where the Terran would suffer from throwing in a few Ghosts into his composition.

Is there ever a reason for Terran to not build Ghosts against Protoss?
Edited by Soxes on 11/29/2011 9:02 PM PST
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Posts: 724
Short answer: No. There is no reason for them not to build it.
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Posts: 3,801
I don't think there's ever a reason for Terrans not to make ghosts against Protoss.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no Protoss unit which truly counters the ghost, only units that work better. If you throw a bunch of colossi against a ghost-sporting Terran, the normal reaction to ghosts, he will still do better having ghosts than if he had the equivalent in medivacs or marauders.

I mean yes, I consider casters to be outside the normal counter cycle - casters shouldn't simply be hard countered like an immortal fighting a banshee, but ghosts are like pre-nerf infestors - they don't really have a weak point. Massive, light, psionic, it doesn't matter, ghosts work against everything. HT's grow weak against massive units that shrug off storm damage, and infestors have a few choice weaknesses against long range units, but ghosts? They just EMP and it's bound to do some good damage.

I kind of wish Protoss had some kind of anti-EMP bomb in their army where if you EMP it it suddenly goes berserk and starts wailing on Terran troops. Call it the Psi-ko.
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Posts: 67
Yeah, I've agreed with the "why would you ever NOT get ghosts" since the beginning, even before people started getting them (even when they cost a ton more they would've been worth it), and I'm terrible at this game...

I started playing with the idea of having Guardian Shield help vs. EMP. My idea was to reduce the EMP effect by 20%-30%. This would still deal a great amount of damage to ALL protoss units, would force more GS instead of FF at the start of battles. I'm not sure, since the patch, if I would have it up at 30% since the radius decrease removed a large chunk of total damage done.

It might not make a ton of sense scientifically... but come on.. It's the Protoss.

Also... the counter to Ghost?
THE CARRIER

KEEP THE CARRIER IN HOTS!
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Posts: 8,143
Nope. Ghosts are such a ridiculous unit theres never any reason not to make them. And thats the whole problem with the unit right there. They have strong applications in all three matchups and are used in all three matchups by pro terran players like MVP.
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Posts: 533
11/29/2011 09:01 PMPosted by Soxes
Are there any other units in the game who's abilities affect a race as a whole and not just serve as a "counter" to a specific unit/set of units?

Archons counter zerg.
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Posts: 1,960
If you aren't using ghosts tvp, youre doing it wrong.

Even a couple EMPs when a toss goes straight robo tech helps out SO much. It's instant freaking AOE damage.

Sprinkle more as necessary to deal with HTs.
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Posts: 579
11/30/2011 11:49 AMPosted by GymRainer
Archons counter zerg.


And what exactly is stopping a zerg from seeing chargelot archon and using NP on the archons? Stealing the unit seems like a counter to me.


Chargelots beat anything if you don't kite them, so having infestors that remain stationary is not good for your strategy.
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Posts: 350
you make collosus/archon every game, we make ghosts everygame funny how things are so similar eh
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Posts: 182
It's like concussive shells, they just always get it. no matter what. (If they're smart)
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Posts: 1,007
Roach infestor HARD counters Chargelot Archon.
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Posts: 171
I'm just throwing this out there, but should the game really have units that not only counter a specific set of units, but also an entire race? Terran has Ghosts which are exceptionally strongv against all Protoss, Protoss has Archons which are exceptionally strong against all Zerg. Does Zerg have anything that does well against Protoss or Terran? I honestly cannot think of one Zerg unit that has some sort of "race-counter."

It's like concussive shells, they just always get it. no matter what. (If they're smart)


you make collosus/archon every game, we make ghosts everygame funny how things are so similar eh


This is not what I am talking about. There are situations where building other units instead of Colossi or Archons would be better against Terran. Collosi and Concussive Shells do not become more/less powerful solely depending on what race they are playing against. Colossi are not inherently stronger against Protoss than Zerg or Terran. However, Ghosts and Archons become significantly stronger solely dependant on the match-up.

Should units like the Ghost or the Archon exist in their current state (EMP destroying shields, which every Protoss unit has; Archons receiving bonus damage to Zerg because they are all biological?) Was this design intended by Blizzard or possibly overlooked?
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Posts: 113
Are you still having problems with EMP? I find it fairly easy to faceroll any terran, even if he puts out 4-5 emps. I don't do any unit spreading or anything. It's really easy.
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Posts: 4,144
11/30/2011 08:47 PMPosted by TenchiSaWaDa
Roach infestor HARD counters Chargelot Archon.


So does roach/hydra or just mass roaches.
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Posts: 171
YOU'RE ALREADY PLAYING AN OP RACE AND QQ?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!

THANKS FOR THE LAUGH.


This is why these forums will never be taken seriously. I dare you to find one sentence that demonstrates bias towards Protoss and against Zerg/Terran. Did you actually read anything I said? I included Archons (which, judging by your lack of ability to process information, is a Protoss unit) into the fray of whether units like these should exist. I'm not running into problems, I'm merely asking why units exist in this game that become better solely based on a race matchup, and nothing more.
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Posts: 1,654
Is there ever a reason for Protoss to not build Zealots, Archons, HT, Stalkers against Terran?
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Posts: 171
12/01/2011 08:18 AMPosted by Xenos
Is there ever a reason for Protoss to not build Zealots, Archons, HT, Stalkers against Terran?


You don't understand what I'm saying. If you play Mech I'm not going HT Storm, and if you play Bio I'm not going to go mass Gateway. So yes, there are reasons to not build certain units in certain situations. The only unit out of those 4 that counters a race (Zerg) are Archons which are put in the same boat as Ghosts. When you consider the overall power of the Ghost in all three match ups, no one is going to deny that Ghosts have additional incentive to use solely against Protoss (no other race takes energy loss AND shield loss from EMP) compared to Zerg or Terran. What are the Ghosts' weaknesses?

Please do not read this in a complacent tone. I'm not complaining about Ghosts. I'm merely pointing out observations and trying to stimulate legitimate discussion among the Starcraft 2 community to hopefully end the QQ/Debate about EMP and Ghosts in general.
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