StarCraft® II

Roach/Hydra/(Corruptor?) vs Toss in HoTS?

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Posts: 2,773
Hydras are beast with the speed upgrade. I have it in my ZSL maps and although hydras don't the dps of a marine (per cost) they can run just as fast as a stimmed one, making storms easier to dodge - and running from lategame zerg becomes near impossible.
Posts: 937
^ That's really horrible advice dude...

Why would you have 2-4 overseers? You should never have any overseers in your army, until DT's start to be an issue or P has 3+ bases... I mean lategame always useful to have one, but not 2-4...

Having a bunch of overlords not the best idea either. They won't tank damage, as the enemy will fire on 'hostile' units before non-hostile units. For the same reason, you wont attack mining workers if hostile units are nearby.

It's better to go fast third as opposed to doing a 2 base all-in. ROach/Hydra/Corruptor on 2 base will never beat a 2 base protoss. Even 3 base r/h/c barely beats 2 base protoss armies.

10 queens, .... burrow move roaches... dude, everything you say is just completely wrong. Completely, completely wrong.

I'm not saying this strat is a 'high-masters' level strat (even though Stephano uses a LOT of variations in a LOT of his games). But it IS without a doubt fairly easy to execute and much harder for toss to counter when average apms are <60.

Oseer thing...barely worth talking about, typically I make 2, but even in diamond simply "spamming changelings" is mildly effective, especially for cost. 2 Oseers = 1 muta, and constant spamming of changelings provides more than enough scouting to be worth it usually. With this strat, sniping observers is very important and Toss will use his stalkers to snipe your Oseers if you are not careful. With decent micro though, you could easily get by with 1, but really it's a pretty minor investment for additional scouting.

OLs with army. This, again IMO, is fairly important mostly for creep spread. BUT there are other important factors, such as preventing colossus from targeting hydras...and kiting / tanking. The creep spread is what forces his army to retreat even if securing a minor victory since reinforcing roaches will destroy whatever is left if he sits on creep. The kiting / tanking thing, with enough APM wont matter but it does take higher APM. It's much more akin to fighting large scale in a base. The defender can simply A-move, stutter back, A-move. The attacker MUST use move command into position, and constantly move command forward the units that started attacking buildings after the defender stuttered back. OLs do the same thing for your roaches / hydra.

10 queens, I said ~10 roaches and A queen :P Ya, some people don't use borrow move roaches much, some do. Frankly it depends on skill level.

In a pro game, you typically won't ever see this ball exactly as 1) it's reasonably easy to counter with colossus with really high APM, 2) Almost hard countered with storm, and 3) The real 'threat' is all the variations where you cut Burrow / Groved +2 / Faster 3rd / Spire, etc...The build should provide a lot of map control, blinding protoss and essentially forcing fast teching to HTs while maintaining a reasonable amount of blink stalker / immortal / lots. You cut 1 or 2 things out and you have 10 more supply in army and hit 90 seconds earlier, and the protoss has to do something different to respond to each variation without much vision at all.

But for Diamond and below, it's totally fine to just 'mass up and A-move' typically. But higher than that, it's usually much better to scout / cut something and attack closer to ~140 food (from what I've seen).
Edited by kybarnet on 12/15/2011 11:39 AM PST
Posts: 2,261
^ No, it's not. All you are proving is that in Diamond and below, you can get away with anything because everyone plays so !@#$ty. Yes, that's great, but that doesn't make it great play. I could 4 gate or 6 pool and beat anyone in Diamond and below, it doesn't mean they are good builds.

Anything works in the lower levels. The point is that try playing well, and you might rise out of it, or you may rise more in the lower levels from where you already are.

Like, I could beat every diamond out there without ever getting hive, or using upgrades. Is that ridiculous? Yea... just like diamond is.

Interesting: hellions are already pretty good against lings. Why aren't battle hellions better?


Hellions are situational against lings. Small numbers of hellions vs small numbers of hellions, hellions are good. When lings get large, hellions aren't as good. There is a 'critical mass' point where hellions again are okay, but only with kiting (ie if no FG is around or they are micro'd) or zerg is bunched up.

Battle hellions are like regular hellions except less splash and slower. Not useful against lings. It's better against zealots due to... why don't you just play it out on the custom? jesus christ.
Edited by Belial on 12/15/2011 2:03 PM PST
Posts: 3,501
12/15/2011 02:01 PMPosted by Belial
why don't you just play it out on the custom? jesus christ.

Ok, I will.

EDIT: Did. Yep, if you let 100 +1 zerglings get a surround on 10 battle hellions, they'll kill 6. So the battle hellions are ****ing terrible.
On the other hand, you're right: roach/hydra is still awful and blinding cloud doesn't help that much.
Edited by BlackAdder on 12/15/2011 4:44 PM PST
Posts: 1,839
Been trying hydra ling corruptor, seems to work well against toss, as long as you have your creep spread well, because once hydra get off creep, dodging storms is impossible.

In HotS, we will get some extra units, as well as our opponents, so its kind of hard to judge just how viable some compositions are.
Posts: 657
roach hydra is perfectly viable against protoss, i use it almost every zvp. Roach hydra destroys gateway units and combined with corrupters for the collosi (when they pop) you can overwhelm a protoss player
Posts: 7,266
01/08/2012 03:59 PMPosted by SoulesGinger
roach hydra is perfectly viable against protoss, i use it almost every zvp. Roach hydra destroys gateway units and combined with corrupters for the collosi (when they pop) you can overwhelm a protoss player


I'm not a terribly good player but this is how I die pretty much every time I face Zerg so I can agree that this certainly works at some levels. I usually just get worn down and if it is a map with an exposed 3rd base I almost feel like I have no chance in the game.
Posts: 58
Holy necro batman

Shut it down boys. Lots changed since this thread was originally started.
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