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Mutas are too good vs Protoss. Mutalisk needs to be reduced range because of the mobility of this unit. Not to mention they do splash damage so mass mutas just runs over stalkers easily.

Whats counter for massive mutalisk? ANyone have an idea? Don't say archons because magic boxing.

Blizzard's solution is called "The Tempest" and is coming in the next expansion... This basically says "We acknowledge the situation and here is the solution, but you're going to have to wait till it's ready."

Until then you have to rely on early engagements to force larva to be soldiers instead of workers, and attacking supply lines/expansions.

If you also "magic box" your archons with a few templar throwing storms between, you either force them to take the damage from the storm, or break the formation to, go after the Templar/dash off, and take a bit more Archon damage.
If you don't space properly they get hit by your own storms so its a "bleh" kind of strategy at best, and disperses attack focus a tad far.
It also takes too much time to set up... but bleh... its a suggestion, and that's what you asked for right? O.o;

phoenix. u can get it long b4 mutas come out. have a good number to limit muta. phoenix outrange mutas, r faster, and attacks while shooting. it counters almost all zerg AA too. dont b scared to invest in phoenix. even if zerg isn't going mutas or is going for not many, u can always kill off zerg overlords.

And I have a fcken problem with Colossus deathball!!! Used to be able to face it with Neural Parasite, but I guess that's too much for that bald-head Toss noob to handle, that's why he decided to reduce neural parasite's range to unuseable!!! F$ck you, bald head!!!

The problem with using Phoenix to counter mutas is they are too micro-intensive.

Technically they can kill off an entire army of mutas without every being hit due to their ability to simultaneously fire & move, but as I already said this requires a lot of micro thus diverting your attention away from more pressing things. Also bear in mind that the Tempest replaces the carriers which means you need a fleet beacon.

I don't see this being that big of an issue though as a friend of mine pointed out PvZ is going to basically become an all out stargate war as of HotS. Phoenix can graviton beam hydras allowing tempest to easily frag groups of them in 1 volley, and if they make corrupters just mix in some voidrays to back up your tempests.

It's going to turn PvZ into almost what PvT is now - surviving until the late game where you can just steamroll the opponent with superior units.

micro intensive = training required :P
train until u can micro phoenix while doing everything else. ezier than other micros such as stutter stepping / blink. just right click.

if wut Malacite says is true... zerg will require a massive ground to air unit.

i thot protoss wud use the original deathball + 2 or 3 replicants, replicate the infestor and fungal zerg's own army. this way there's no way deathball can get surrounded. range of that replicator is insane... wut's it like range of 20? (replicate sieged tank and neither r in range of eachother + gap in between in the demo...)

and friggen proxy 2 gates r unstoppable now (cannon + shield on the gateways). xP

Phoenix? Nah, if you microing of course your gonna have it all on one hot key and if you miss and all the phoenix gather in one spot, Mutaslisk does splash.

wtf i'd expect much better stuff out of a masters brotoss..
phoenix can 1v100 mutas. clumped up phoenix can still fly away. muta splash is 3 hits, 1 full damamge, 1 66% dmg, 1 33% dmg. not even full splash. but fine, if you r not gonna use phoenix, then good luck trolling forum and begging blizzard for nerf. not gonna happen.

ps, your race is considered more or less a perfect race. stop !@#$%ing about something you can't deal with just suck it up and use the right counter and micro.

pps. your upgraded phoenix, the tempests, will do grenade splash to mutas in the future. again, stop whining.

well, if you are just gonna qq here about imba then go right ahead.

it's funny how people GIVE them the answer to something, and they say "NO THE ANSWER IS WRONG, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY BETTER ANSWERS".

i play random.
to Adr, you make phoenix to hopefully force zerg go hydras, the worst unit in the game. phoenix opening into collossi deathball.

you also forget.... if phoenix/hydra ratio is 1:1, phoenix win. phoenix can disable every single one of the hydras. each lifted hydra is instantly dead if you continue to produce phoenix. 4got the number, around 8 or 9.

you also forget.... your paper planes can go straight in, sacrifice 1 of your paper planes, kill a queen and 2/3 overlords in the process, pull out. you sacrifice paper planes, zerg cannot produce PERIOD.

you also forget.... to micro phoenix against mutas.

you also forget... you are complaining about 1 misclick and they clump... it takes 1 misclick of zerg for mutas to clump AND NOT FIRE. your paper planes can.

you also forget... your paper planes mean no scouting for zerg whatsoever if you keep them active. no invisible flying toys for zergies.

you also forget... phoenix will come in mass. if you think you can stop at 4-5 phoenix against 12 - 13 mutas, you better have bisu micro or you dont talk. you see muta,s you make phoenix. you see more mutas, you make more phoenix.

now mr. gold, tell me how zerg can retreat their overlords if phoenix speed is like 4 times faster. while zerg loses his 3-4 overlords in the map, zerg CANNOT PRODUCE. YOU CAN.
zergie has to spend another 400 minerals in overlords, THEN catchup onto PREVIOUS supply limit.

If a zerg is really good, Protoss won't have a choice but to do or die. Base trade is what I meant and thats why protoss can kill off the zerg before all buildings are dead.

Phoenix vs Muta suffer the same problem as VR vs Roach

Roach and muta can clear the entire protoss base before phoenix and VR can deal with them

to xxxxxxx - basetrade and FF. what's zerg gonna do... run up the ramp? LOL
sac natural to kill zerg main with VR. worth it.

to mr. gold,
your paper planes is the way to deal with mutas whether u like it or not.
as for scouting, trading energy of your paper planes for zerg scout info is always worth it.
your skill is rather extremely questionable as you still lose to hydra roach, and you think intel < Energy
your micro must be questionable because you don't know how to disable units with graviton beam
your logic is very questionable because you think you are so good with your questionable grammar and you think you gold had more experience than plat. this is my off account, i play diamond on another.
your macro MUST be questionable because you get destroyed by hydras if you harass with phoenix. it takes 20 years for hydras to get across map, and you should be ready even if you see them halfway... if you ever...
your early game strategy must be pathetic because you don't know how to harass zerg fast 3rd, 4th, 5th (that is, at least what you are saying)
look at higher players. what the f**** does that even mean. high of of !@#$%^-? lol.

just go watch some streams.

go to teamliquid and find protoss streams to improve yourself.
oh, try to learn proper english too. you sound like you are 12. if that's the case you shudn't b playing.

whiney noob if you still wanna be a b!tch about it stop replying and read this instead. saves u a lot more time. u r never gonna convince me paper planes < mutas and hydras.

since you hate paper planes read this.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788

i love how everyone thinks this new ship is gonna solve all protoss muta problems lol. they said the tempest is going to be a new capitol ship likely replacing the carrier. so basically the blizzard toss counter for mutas is to drop a fleat beacon and start pumping massive t3 aircraft LOL.

no the more relevant issue is thefact that you will need to use stalkers. theres a lot of good info in the ling int he post above this one. i dont play toss, but clearly the tl poster (col.rsvp) is a toss player who understands zerg. very clearly he understand that a muta ball cant fight a direct engagement with anything. he also understands that mutas pretty much mean thats the entire zerg output flying around and it takes ridiculous numbers of lings to stop a large stalker ball especially with good blink micro. the other thing he kind of hints at is good muta numbers actually take a pretty good ammount of time to work up to. like a zerg cant just fart out 20 mutas, you usually start with 7-10, which is your initial burst that a zerg saves up for, then you get more in 2s and 3s as time goes on. actually stopping whatever it is your going for, like collo even if your support bay is done, immediatly drop a tc and get blink out asap. dont waste money on sentries. yea shield helps with aoe, but really as a zerg player i just ff sentrys and they go down pretty quick. instead that gas needs to go into stalkers. actually a humongus stalker ball is kind of hard to destroy for zerg with anything short of bl.

The new tempest is BS. It takes like 8 shots to kill 1 muta and it shoots insanely slow.
Seriously, I think they can just buff phoenix to 6 range, and bam, problem fixed. And phoenix isn't really imba with 6 range either if their graviton beam stays the original range. Protoss needs a good air vs air unit anw.

bro i play protoss. i win with protoss against noobs who go muta becuz i open with FE + phoenix. if stargate phoenix nonstop (chrono), 2 stargate if zerg expands to third. almost alto win.

but yea. some 12 yr old doesn't even wanna get better. only qq about everything. so be it. u'll never be a better player. go qq moar and learn less to deal with it. basically everything ANYONE says you counter and you complain.

Patch 1.4.3: Fixed a bug where a Protoss unit died.

Your in game judgement is flawed, and you will never league up unless you change yourself. Which is not gonna happen.