StarCraft® II

“Stream Sniping” and Customer Service Policy

Posts: 13,005
01/20/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Dawkins
Streamcheating has no effect on esports.

Except for how pro players can't stream effectively when they're facing people who stream snipe or stream cheat. When that happens, viewers lose interest. And viewers are the ones who drive e-sports, since it's our viewership that generates the ad revenue, we who motivate the investment into e-sports.

Allowing this to continue does stifle e-sports.

For example. Say that someone new to watching SC2 is tuning into IdrA's stream. IdrA gets stream sniped and/or cheated by Deezer. It's really not entertaining and IdrA turns off his stream. This new viewer now had a negative outlook on viewing streams.
Edited by TropicalBob on 1/20/2012 11:25 AM PST
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Posts: 583
playing the same person over and over (which is what stream sniping does) was considered abusive on the sc1 ladder and there were measures in place to discourage it. not sure why this isn't the case for sc2.

iirc an sc1 ladder game wouldn't count if you had played your opponent too many times in a given period. back then there was no matchmaking system so people were able to host/join ladder games themselves. since you now have complete control over the matchmaking, you can take this one step further and simply prevent two players from being matched up too many times in a given period. this would make stream sniping much less obnoxious and even improve the integrity of your ladder at the same time.
Edited by Nsa on 1/20/2012 4:07 PM PST
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Posts: 6,730
01/20/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Nsa
playing the same person over and over (which is what stream sniping does) was considered abusive on the sc1 ladder and there were measures in place to discourage it. not sure why this isn't the case for sc2.


People aren't sure why a LOT of things from SC1 aren't also in SC2. -_-
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Posts: 289
I think stream cheaters are funny. especially when everyone gets mad at them.
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Posts: 191
Blizzard really doesn't seem to care about the community. On rare occasions they descend from their thrones in the heavens to grant the masses short messages that concern a widespread issue that needs to be fixed, like this here. Of course these petty messages we have the privledge to hear never do nothing to actually help resolve the issues.
Continue closing your ears and eyes Blizzard, at the very least, ban well known hackers.
Edited by TheBatman on 1/20/2012 11:40 PM PST
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Posts: 1,893
Blizzard really doesn't seem to care about the community. On rare occasions they descend from their thrones in the heavens to grant the masses short messages that concern a widespread issue that needs to be fixed, like this here. Of course these petty messages we have the privledge to hear never do nothing to actually help resolve the issues.
Continue closing your ears and eyes Blizzard, at the very least, ban well known hackers.


They do not ban these "hackers" because they are not hackers. Blizzard do not want to step into this because it would be the same as saying "we may ban people that lack sportsmanship", which would be abusive.

The choice belongs to the streamer. If he wants to allow his stream to be seen, there is noting blizzard can do. Also, they have absolutely no way to actually know if someone is streamcheating. Blizzard does not and should not ban people on assumptions.
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Posts: 163
The game is not flawed because casters are exploited by stream whateverers. Destiny is not a "real" pro-gamer since the elite only practice with purely the elite. only a few pro's stream on a regular basis. If destiny was smart, he would not stream for a period of time to change his mmr and then start streaming again so that his and deezers are different.
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Posts: 1,144
01/19/2012 09:01 AMPosted by Bashiok
If someone in-game chooses to tell their opponent every move they’re making, thereby informing them how to counter it, we cannot conclude that any violation has taken place.


False analogy. Screen watching in Goldeneye is closer, and if you can say that wasn't cheating with a straight face you would be great at bluffing in poker. Similarly, there was no real effective way to detect or prove it.

If what you're trying to say is Blizzard cannot effectively moderate this particular aspect of the game, say that. It is a pretty reasonable conclusion to draw anyway. Such petty evasion just looks bad.
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Posts: 1,144
False analogy.


Analogy? WTF about that is an analogy?!


Streaming, and telling someone with the in game chat what you are doing are not the same thing. This makes it an analogy.

01/21/2012 07:15 AMPosted by AaronRodgers
What they say is fact


This is a non-argument.

there is no analogous text in the quoted text you replied to. By showing your stream for all to see, you are telling your opponents how to counter you.


Non-sequitur. That you are streaming allows what you are doing to be seen, yes, but it does not constitute you actually TELLING an opponent what you are doing.

01/21/2012 07:15 AMPosted by AaronRodgers
Now you have a fear of shadows, AND proper analytic skills.


Ad-hominem.


Edit:
I decided to toss this in here just for clarity. If you can scale back your incredulity a notch, you'll note I never offered an opinion on whether I even think Blizzard should be trying to moderate this. Aside from that they could not do so even if they had the desire, all I pointed out was a bad analogy and wish-washy phrasing.
You seem to be emotionally invested in your opinion, but I suspect you are mistaken in your interpretation of what mine may be. Regardless, that holds no relevance to what I was saying. Try to remain civil.
Edited by Sciaphobia on 1/21/2012 8:01 AM PST
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Posts: 1,462
01/21/2012 05:19 AMPosted by Sciaphobia
False analogy. Screen watching in Goldeneye is closer, and if you can say that wasn't cheating with a straight face you would be great at bluffing in poker. Similarly, there was no real effective way to detect or prove it.


They didn't say it wasn't "cheating." They did call it unsportsmanlike. It just isn't cheating in a way where the "cheater" is directly influencing the game or data stream. The "cheater" is taking advantage of an action taken by the "cheated."

Also, the slit screen setup was the only way to play Goldeneye. Starcraft is played on different computers where neither user can see the other unless one uses a program for stream manipulation, trojans, etc.. OR one user provides the other with information. Everything else aside, your analogy is wrong.
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Posts: 49
Being a server admin myself, stopping streaming sniping might as well be part of SOPA/PIPA. It's just not possible to do without it.
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Posts: 3,261
+1
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Posts: 601
While I understand the decision, I can't help but be dissapointed with it.

This really comes across as a cop-out, a "it would be too hard to police, so we don't want to deal with it".

Streaming has become a huge part of this game, I know I watch streams anytime I want something going on in the background, and for Blizz to not actively support and act on what clearly the community is taking issue with (stream sniping, stream cheating, ect ect) is a bit of a "we don't care". Which I think is kind of sad.

As many have brought up, the ToS is pretty vague and would allow Blizz to take action if they so chose to.

Its not as though they would need to be actively pursueing stream abusers... they would simply need to pay attention to the reports being submitted to them, especially in the case of players like Deezer.

If someone gets reported by a ton of different top level players for cheating (or even normal level players)... then have a blizz person check out that players activity... if its proven they are cheating, ban them. Done and Done. It won't take long before ppl like Deezer realize that the risk isn't worth it anymore.

TLDR: I understand the decision, but as a customer, and a fan, I am dissapointed that blizz wouldn't want to be more actively ensuring the community could benefit from watching live streams.
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Posts: 4
just stop live streaming thats solves every thing
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Posts: 1,840
01/21/2012 08:35 PMPosted by shadowmonk
just stop live streaming thats solves every thing


Then they would have to get actual jobs.
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Posts: 191
Blizzard really doesn't seem to care about the community. On rare occasions they descend from their thrones in the heavens to grant the masses short messages that concern a widespread issue that needs to be fixed, like this here. Of course these petty messages we have the privledge to hear never do nothing to actually help resolve the issues.
Continue closing your ears and eyes Blizzard, at the very least, ban well known hackers.


They do not ban these "hackers" because they are not hackers. Blizzard do not want to step into this because it would be the same as saying "we may ban people that lack sportsmanship", which would be abusive.

The choice belongs to the streamer. If he wants to allow his stream to be seen, there is noting blizzard can do. Also, they have absolutely no way to actually know if someone is streamcheating. Blizzard does not and should not ban people on assumptions.


Well I'm quite certain there is a known hacking list of currently active players on Team Liquid. "Report this player" simply does not work, on the topic on Destiny and Deezer because this is what this thread is really about, I know Deezer threatened to sexually assault his kid, it was reported. Of course nothing happened, not to mention several other cases between them.

If nothing else, if your going to implement a reporting system and have a TOS, enforce it.


01/21/2012 08:35 PMPosted by shadowmonk
just stop live streaming thats solves every thing


It's how they make their living
Edited by TheBatman on 1/22/2012 12:57 AM PST
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