StarCraft® II

“Stream Sniping” and Customer Service Policy

Was there a different expectation people had?

Seriously, I don't understand what people could expect Blizzard to do. Destiny has a method for dealing with this, usually after he's had to play 1 game against Deezer that works--put up the kitty cat and turn sound off.

He could even chose to do that prior to every match instead of waiting to be sniped once.

The delay is really problematic as one of the most important parts of streaming is interacting with your chat.

I can't even think of a good way Destiny can block him. Even if he manages to ferret out an IP, he'd just go through a proxy.

Ah well, back to Korea it is!
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01/23/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Sev
I don't even understand how this is an issue. When you stream you're allowing your opponent to potentially see everything you do. That's your choice. Yeah it's poor sportsmanship to take advantage of streamers, but ultimately it's their own fault. If you want to seriously ladder without getting sniped, don't stream! You can't expect Blizzard to ban people for taking advantage of information that's being willingly broadcasted publicly by their opponent in the first place. That's completely ridiculous.
Thats like saying the person who walked into an unfamiliar neighborhood and got shot is at fault and not the shooter.
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Logical. Artosis, stop spamming them with QQ complaints...haha.
Edited by GTNSX on 1/23/2012 6:18 PM PST
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fine, cripple e-sports, I don't care.

ugh.

EDIT: oh yeah, but it's totally okay to punish anyone who fights back against stream sniping, because that's wrong, because stream sniping is ok, amirite?

EDIT2: this actually is unsound in many ways now that I think about it, if I leave my dor unlocked, it's not my fault I got robbed. and like many others have stated the closet analogy is a pro poker game. If blizz ran poker tournaments, all the players could tune into espn to see each others hands, because the player "chooses to provide their opponent an advantage" by putting their hand on that little glass section with the camera underneath it, "streaming" their hand.
Edited by Havoc on 1/24/2012 12:53 AM PST
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ugh.

EDIT: oh yeah, but it's totally okay to punish anyone who fights back against stream sniping, because that's wrong, because stream sniping is ok, amirite?


Destiny isn't fighting back, he's acting completely irresponsibly. He has thousands of immature, rabid fans--he's providing information that could cause harm to someone. While he may not be culpable for a criminal case for such an event, civil court is much less forgiving. In short, he's taking a chance right now fighting the way he is.


EDIT2: this actually is unsound in many ways now that I think about it, if I leave my dor unlocked, it's not my fault I got robbed. and like many others have stated the closet analogy is a pro poker game. If blizz ran poker tournaments, all the players could tune into espn to see each others hands, because the player "chooses to provide their opponent an advantage" by putting their hand on that little glass section with the camera underneath it, "streaming" their hand.


No, it's like leaving your wallet on a bench in a public park and then not accepting any responsibility if it goes missing. The internet is a public place, broadcasting your games on the internet and expecting everyone to be courteous enough to not use that information to their advantage is like leaving your wallet on a park bench unattended and expecting everyone to be courteous enough to not use that information to their advantage.

Kind of naive, huh?
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Couldn't of said it better.

Is there a reason why Blizzard doesn't like to listen or even consider customer feedback/complaints?

This thread just made the streamsnipers/cheaters happy. Well done Blizzard.


How would Blizzard be able to verify someone watched your stream? It's not like map hacks where you can watch a replay, turn on your opponents in game view and see that he can look at your base with or without a scout.

Blizzard can't tunnel into your computer history and see that you were watching twitch.tv on a second monitor while beating someone in SC2. Stop acting like Blizzard has control over what people do off battle.net.

If you provide a live real time stream and someone uses it against you, it's on you, not Blizzard. It's no different that typing in [All] chat in game and telling your opponent your every move and then QQ'ing that he listened and beat you. Plain ignorant.

*Edit: How do you prove someone beat you while watching your stream? You can't. Unless they are streaming them watching your stream and beating you. Period.
Edited by Khalador on 1/24/2012 9:17 AM PST
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People shouldnt do live streams then.
People should just stream replays or post vids on youtube.
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It's no different that typing in [All] chat in game and telling your opponent your every move and then QQ'ing that he listened and beat you. Plain ignorant.

Uh. Yeah. It's completely different.

One is providing information willingly, knowingly, and directly to your opponent. The other is attempting to provide an entertainment service to your fans.
Edited by TropicalBob on 1/24/2012 10:06 PM PST
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I understand that they aren't breaking terms of service by stream-sniping precisely, but I am sure that an argument can be made that it is harassment.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harass
Definition of HARASS

transitive verb
1
a : exhaust, fatigue
b (1) : to annoy persistently (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct
2
: to worry and impede by repeated raids <harassed the enemy>


Notable stream snipers annoy persistently, create unpleasant and hostile situations that are not wanted by the streaming party or the intended audience. Essentially what is happening is the equivalent of stalking, a form of harassment. Since it was stated that one could be banned for harassment against another player in the blue post

We are absolutely able to enforce, and will continue to do so, violations that include harassment of others in-game, use of hacks, abuse of our reporting tools, and attempts to disrupt the gameplay of others.


In any case this is an argument for banning notable stream-snipers who repeatedly and continue to abuse the system in such a way to consistently play against the top streamer listed on TL. Their actions and conduct should qualify as harassment and result in punitive action, not letting them do as they please.

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Lol at comparison of stream sniping/cheating to robbery and murder. Like hyperbole much?

01/25/2012 01:57 AMPosted by TeTrodoToxIn
Notable stream snipers annoy persistently, create unpleasant and hostile situations that are not wanted by the streaming party or the intended audience. Essentially what is happening is the equivalent of stalking, a form of harassment. Since it was stated that one could be banned for harassment against another player in the blue post


We are absolutely able to enforce, and will continue to do so, violations that include harassment of others in-game, use of hacks, abuse of our reporting tools, and attempts to disrupt the gameplay of others.


They should ban people for verbal harassment and for making threats against others, but Blizzard can't make a blanket statement that all stream cheaters/snipers are harassing "in-game." They are taking advantage of the ladder system, but this doesn't seem to fall under what you are quoting since it is not "in-game."
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01/25/2012 09:02 AMPosted by Abstraction
They should ban people for verbal harassment and for making threats against others, but Blizzard can't make a blanket statement that all stream cheaters/snipers are harassing "in-game." They are taking advantage of the ladder system, but this doesn't seem to fall under what you are quoting since it is not "in-game."


Yes as a blanket statement it can't be enforced like that, but when someone is a repeat offender and continues doing it with no repercussion, they are clearly harassing. If someone is well documented to have been doing this numerous times to the same people they should be punished for it. That is what I meant in my post.
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Easy, integrate streaming into the game client, and do not allow the opponent to watch the stream at the same time. Then make sure there is an IP check so that the opponent may not watch the stream on another account. This would make stream cheating much more annoying. It would force the use of proxies on another computer or something like that.
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"Stream cheating" != "Stream sniping"


Stream cheating is a duh. If you're streaming, and your opponent just watches the stream and knows where you are, what tech route you're going and what you're planning, then yes, Blizzard's answer is the appropriate one. There's simply no way to regulate absolutely every case of a streamer facing a cheating opponent.

Stream sniping however is the real enemy. Being able to queue at the same time as the streamer you're targeting and getting matched against him not once, but practically every single time you try it, is what causes the problem, and what leads to so many top level players getting matched against deezer every single game.

Give preference to newer matches before the matchmaking system gives up and just puts you against the same opponent as last game. There's nothing wrong with rematch marathons, but it causes so many damned problems for streamers to just constantly go up against someone who 'decides they're going to play vs them,' queues, and turns the match into a retarded cheese game the whole night long.
Edited by Slan on 1/25/2012 3:44 PM PST
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Blizzard sticks to their user policy? Well, I've never heard of a corporate policy that mandates them sticking to a corporate policy.

They have zero obligation to you people, we are lucky that they care enough about us to try to balance a multiplayer that they support without monthly payment. Honestly, we paid for the game and more than a year later they are paying people to try to support its multiplayer.

That said, I find blizzard to annoy the !@#$ out of me. Look at what Bioware has done...their delay was 3 months? They said 2011 release date and now their epic MULTIPLAYER upgrade to their game Mass Effect 3 is out in early march. I feel like blizzard needs to put a fire under some ones %^-. Hell, Diablo 3? My money is on Q4 at this point, late Q3 if they are pushing it.

REAL companies can release sports games like NHL 2010 or whatever every damn year with some half decent graphical upgrades EVER DAMN YEAR. Yes, creep goes on buildings...come the hell on. New units? AMAZING. 15+ level campaign? bull*!@#.

Worst company out there, to be honest. Get out games? announce them 2-3 years before and have the GAME disappoint. Good cinematics, of course, and yes we love you for your balance attempts.

Look, HotS should be announced to be released...by january 2013 as if it matters cause mayans.


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01/26/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Ponera
we are lucky that they care enough about us to try to balance a multiplayer that they support without monthly payment

You know, other than the royalties that they demand from tournaments without putting anything into them.

I wonder if there's any actual legal base for them to do that. I'm sure that during this IP protection crazy time that any court would uphold Blizzard's end even if there's not a leg to stand on.
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Putting one word in caps does not make your point valid. Waiting till a player you are trying to snipe ques up to another game and hitting find game at the roughly the same time dose not make the match making bad it is an abuse of the system not the fault of Blizzard.
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Just put a delay on your stream (like the 2 minute delay in dota 2) and you vastly diminish the amount of information the stream sniper gets. Or don't stream at all. Do you see professional online poker players streaming their games publicly?
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I played a someone he made 20banshees in 10min is that possible?
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01/31/2012 06:46 PMPosted by kitak
I played a someone he made 20banshees in 10min is that possible?


Get the #$#@ out of my bounty hunter meeting.
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