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The whole idea of the Mothership is that she's supposed to be a TERRIFYING unit to see. To paraphrase "The Matrix"'s Cypher, you see the Mothership, you run. You run your !@# off. At least, that is what should happen.

But that's not what happens. Yes there are specific Mothership builds, but they're rare and often considered all-ins. The unit is horribly difficult to tech to, and it's way too easy to bring down. It's quite possibly the most underpowered unit in the game.

So let's do it, Blizz. If you really really want to get rid of this iconic unit of the Protoss army, just for once, give her these buffs and make her the powerhouse she deserves to be.

-All incoming damage to the Mothership is reduced by 10 per shot.
-The Mothership's shields are immune to EMP.
-Planet Cracker reintroduced to the Mothership.

Do it. Seriously. Give her the prestige she deserves before the death that she doesn't. Let the zerg and terran players (especially the terrans) rage these forums in mad QQ over a unit that is finally as strong as she could be. Let protoss actually have a late-game option other than colossi, HTs, or archons.

Mothership is actually OP.

You just don't know how to abuse it. But why would I tell you how to abuse it?

actually theres a lot more meat to MrSinister's post than troll. idk about tvp, but in tvz, everything about the mothership is stupid just because of the way zerg has of dealing with it.

First off the cloaking field is almost impossible to deal with. mandating like 5 still incredibly snipeable overseeers be added to your army isnt enough to deal with an already hard to fight deathball that you can no no longer hit until you kill a big thousand hit point ship that because of zergs weak aa is also retardedly difficult to do. yes you can make corrupters, but hopefully theres collosus under that thing otherwise thats at least 750/500 and 10 food you were forced to waste on your army.

second, they never nerfed the archon toilet. its not as bad as it was before, you dont lose in excess of 70 food instantly, you just lose it over the course of about 5 seconds now in which time no amount of micro is going to save anything and youre still going to lose everything.

finally the fleet recall is more doom droppy than an actual doom drop. have you ever done this? you sit on 2 3 4 bases whatever and just build and tech then eventually the zerg will attack you with like bl. wel if one of the things you had built while you were building and teching was a mother ship, you can fleet recall into the zergs main basically forcing a base race scenario, but protoss has the advantage in a base race scenario because the zerg late game army cant possibly win a fight with a protoss death ball, thats why the zerg needs lots of hatcheries and macro hatcheries so they can throw away a couple armies to break the deathball down. if you force a base race and like the zerg get their extractor or whatever in your main and you get you pylon in theres, basically a final fight is forced and protoss wins that one any day of the week.

there is nothing wrong with the mothership. the really need to fix the archon toilet, the fact that you still lose inexcess of 50 food in like 3-5 secocnds is just stupid especially when in that same time you dont incurr similiar laosses to the other side, especially for zerg who should do better in a close quarter situation because the zerg army does not normally have all of its units actually doing damage (ie zerglings and roaches running around behind the firing lines etc.)

Mothership is actually OP.

You just don't know how to abuse it. But why would I tell you how to abuse it?

OP Mothership?? Replay or it didn't happen.

Mothership is not a good design. Give us back the arbitator.

actually theres a lot more meat to MrSinister's post than troll. idk about tvp, but in tvz, everything about the mothership is stupid just because of the way zerg has of dealing with it.

First off the cloaking field is almost impossible to deal with. mandating like 5 still incredibly snipeable overseeers be added to your army isnt enough to deal with an already hard to fight deathball that you can no no longer hit until you kill a big thousand hit point ship that because of zergs weak aa is also retardedly difficult to do. yes you can make corrupters, but hopefully theres collosus under that thing otherwise thats at least 750/500 and 10 food you were forced to waste on your army.

That late in the game, Zerg should have corruptors flying. If they're just getting to lair by that point, they deserve to gg.

second, they never nerfed the archon toilet. its not as bad as it was before, you dont lose in excess of 70 food instantly, you just lose it over the course of about 5 seconds now in which time no amount of micro is going to save anything and youre still going to lose everything.

finally the fleet recall is more doom droppy than an actual doom drop. have you ever done this? you sit on 2 3 4 bases whatever and just build and tech then eventually the zerg will attack you with like bl. wel if one of the things you had built while you were building and teching was a mother ship, you can fleet recall into the zergs main basically forcing a base race scenario, but protoss has the advantage in a base race scenario because the zerg late game army cant possibly win a fight with a protoss death ball, thats why the zerg needs lots of hatcheries and macro hatcheries so they can throw away a couple armies to break the deathball down. if you force a base race and like the zerg get their extractor or whatever in your main and you get you pylon in theres, basically a final fight is forced and protoss wins that one any day of the week.

there is nothing wrong with the mothership. the really need to fix the archon toilet, the fact that you still lose inexcess of 50 food in like 3-5 secocnds is just stupid especially when in that same time you dont incurr similiar laosses to the other side, especially for zerg who should do better in a close quarter situation because the zerg army does not normally have all of its units actually doing damage (ie zerglings and roaches running around behind the firing lines etc.)

Then why is it not an automatic late-game tech like with brood lords? Why do we so rarely see the fleet beacon units?

lol broodlords are not an automatic tech. they tech a butt ton of time and resources that arent going into units. you go hive and greaters spire which is like a tot of 500/300 in tech and like 300 in game sec and you only do it when youre kind of stalemated because you cant attack a player with an army at their base, you pretty much have to wait for them to come out. they dont come out and you max then you start stockpiling larva and resources so you can trade armies. after a little while of that then you tech hive then greater spire, its basically to punish complacentcy.and it totally does because if youre still complacent after the serg has teched and gotten out bl then they start shelling infinite numbers of expendable broodlings and essentially force you to come out or very slowly pick your base apart.

the difference between broolords and feet beacon units is protoss cant really afford to be complacent and tech because that just allows zerg to macro and tech and zerg macros and techs faster and harder than toss. for their investment (time and resources), carriers just dont pay the bills. in other words you would have been better of putting all that time and resources into a standard deathball and you would have been more effective regardless of your micro, just simply because of the number of units and the number of options those units offer (ie collo can star seigeing a base and are moblie stalkers can do stuff, you may consider blink, you may consider other gw units like dts or hts if you are gw heavy). motherships are different though, motherships are not dps units like collosus or carriers, they are more like mega sentries, and like sentries they are mega bull!@#$ if used properly because you can destroy like 50+ in seconds if you do it right and theres nothing the enemy can except try and run away and limit that inevitable 50 food loss to just 50 and pray they get enough units to rebuild in time before you amove over their base. the mothership isnt op because of its attack or health, its op because its support is too good and just totally out matched by any support you can get out of any unit/ unit combo from the other two races

lol broodlords are not an automatic tech. they tech a butt ton of time and resources that arent going into units. you go hive and greaters spire which is like a tot of 500/300 in tech and like 300 in game sec and you only do it when youre kind of stalemated because you cant attack a player with an army at their base, you pretty much have to wait for them to come out. they dont come out and you max then you start stockpiling larva and resources so you can trade armies. after a little while of that then you tech hive then greater spire, its basically to punish complacentcy.and it totally does because if youre still complacent after the serg has teched and gotten out bl then they start shelling infinite numbers of expendable broodlings and essentially force you to come out or very slowly pick your base apart.

the difference between broolords and feet beacon units is protoss cant really afford to be complacent and tech because that just allows zerg to macro and tech and zerg macros and techs faster and harder than toss. for their investment (time and resources), carriers just dont pay the bills. in other words you would have been better of putting all that time and resources into a standard deathball and you would have been more effective regardless of your micro, just simply because of the number of units and the number of options those units offer (ie collo can star seigeing a base and are moblie stalkers can do stuff, you may consider blink, you may consider other gw units like dts or hts if you are gw heavy). motherships are different though, motherships are not dps units like collosus or carriers, they are more like mega sentries, and like sentries they are mega bull!@#$ if used properly because you can destroy like 50+ in seconds if you do it right and theres nothing the enemy can except try and run away and limit that inevitable 50 food loss to just 50 and pray they get enough units to rebuild in time before you amove over their base. the mothership isnt op because of its attack or health, its op because its support is too good and just totally out matched by any support you can get out of any unit/ unit combo from the other two races

Dude. Zerg is not restricted to one brood lord at a time. Even half a dozen of them, when well supported, can decimate just about anything that Terran or especially Protoss throws at them, if they're not prepared. (That is why I believe the Protoss NEED a very strong Tempest.) Contrast that to the horribly underpowered Mothership, which can be taken down by just a handful of marines. Unacceptable.

I'm still waiting on that replay of an overpowered Mothership.

dude archon toilet is so dang broken watch gsl

01/19/2012 04:44 AMPosted by JoWlbaBy

dude archon toilet is so dang broken watch gsl

This

you know why no one does what your saying?

because it doenst work

the fact of the mattter is zerg has bar none the weakest detection in the entire game. there is no "sniping a mothership. motherships are always over their armies cloaking them. there is no snipeing the big 1000 hp air unit over the already hard to deal with but now invisible protoss death ball. you can just drop a bunch of ITs because the death ball will kill them, the death ball that even if miraculouslyt hey were able to spawn, they woudl not be able to shoot at if they wanted it. there is no way for a zerg army to engage a protoss army with a mother ship because of the archon toilet. because of the archon toilet, the best you can hope for is to try and np the mother ship with a lone infester and like burn the vortex or fleet recall just to expell the energy, but sending an infester in to np the mothership to burn the energy is nigh impossible because the protoss deathball has so much range and damage output. ever try to send in one ht to fb all the ghosts or medivacs in a terran army? yea doesnt work that well, well now imagine you have to feed back the medivac then click the medivac and make it do something all befor eyour ht gets killed. it just doesnt happen

01/18/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Tollbooth

OP Mothership?? Replay or it didn't happen.

140 unit army gone in 5 seconds? you've never seen it do that?... Geeze you must be a very sheltered child.

Here's a sample link to a replay. not the best, but I don't want to go fishing through thousands upon thousands of "Archon Toilet" hits just to find a good competition video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMj9N9MAfb0#t=16m35s

actually theres a lot more meat to MrSinister's post than troll. idk about tvp, but in tvz, everything about the mothership is stupid just because of the way zerg has of dealing with it.

First off the cloaking field is almost impossible to deal with. mandating like 5 still incredibly snipeable overseeers be added to your army isnt enough to deal with an already hard to fight deathball that you can no no longer hit until you kill a big thousand hit point ship that because of zergs weak aa is also retardedly difficult to do. yes you can make corrupters, but hopefully theres collosus under that thing otherwise thats at least 750/500 and 10 food you were forced to waste on your army.

Every heard of Fungal Growth? Ya know, it reveals all cloaked units. Also, the mothership is the easiest unit in the game to Neural Parasite because of it's size. Not only can you cloak your own units with it, but you can vortex his army.
1 NP = instantly useless mothership. You take it and move it over your army and just before NP runs out, vortex his army. That gives you enough time to kill 5 motherships before his army comes out. Or, if you were outmatched, you vortexed his army, killed the mothership and retreated freely without any concern of losing any more units for the moment.

Come on man, it's insanely easy to deal with.

The mothership is utterly useless in 99% of situations. It's best ability is rarely used; Recall.
This ability is best as a defensive ability (due to the motherships slow speed, it's poor offensively) and thus is why it's being given to the Nexus in Heart of the Swarm.

It's too expensive for this purpose, but literally it's best use is sitting at your base, cloaking your base and recalling your units when your army gets in a tough spot.

Just my opinion, not that I play Protoss at all. It's just if I see a mothership there's only 2 possible reactions I will have; One I'll laugh. Because infestors are litterally hard counters with either Fungal or Neural Parasite. The second reaction I would have is anger. Anger because only a protoss would field this in a game because he is so far ahead and just dinking around. It's just a dumb waste of money and too easy to deal with, as zerg.

01/19/2012 08:07 PMPosted by Stenorreaper

OP Mothership?? Replay or it didn't happen.

140 unit army gone in 5 seconds? you've never seen it do that?... Geeze you must be a very sheltered child.

Here's a sample link to a replay. not the best, but I don't want to go fishing through thousands upon thousands of "Archon Toilet" hits just to find a good competition video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMj9N9MAfb0#t=16m35s

1. This was before the nerf. Units have 1.5 game seconds of immunity now. That didn't completely neutralize the archon toilet, but it did make it a lot harder to pull off.

2. That zerg player was a complete noob. As Husky pointed out, that was a seriously blunder running all his units into the vortex. He was basically asking to get obliterated.

3. I'm still waiting for a post-nerf replay of this allegedly "OP Mothership." This must be a unit that I am not yet aware of. Perhaps you are thinking of the Purifier from the campaign?

1. They are getting removed. Stop qqing.
2. use it if you want. if you hate it then DON'T MAKE IT. do something else if your opportunity cost of making a mothership is so high.

you don't need them to win.

it's like terrans dont use ravens - their opportunity cost is a scan anywhere and unblockable.

it's like zerg not using hydra - their opportunity cost infestors and more roaches
(examples are by no means generic but just examples)

make extra colossi or something rofl.

01/20/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Tollbooth

140 unit army gone in 5 seconds? you've never seen it do that?... Geeze you must be a very sheltered child.

Here's a sample link to a replay. not the best, but I don't want to go fishing through thousands upon thousands of "Archon Toilet" hits just to find a good competition video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMj9N9MAfb0#t=16m35s

1. This was before the nerf. Units have 1.5 game seconds of immunity now. That didn't completely neutralize the archon toilet, but it did make it a lot harder to pull off.

2. That zerg player was a complete noob. As Husky pointed out, that was a seriously blunder running all his units into the vortex. He was basically asking to get obliterated.

3. I'm still waiting for a post-nerf replay of this allegedly "OP Mothership." This must be a unit that I am not yet aware of. Perhaps you are thinking of the Purifier from the campaign?

Seriously get off your silver throne and take the time to watch pro gamers streams/gsl/pro replays.
Or check the forums for the mothership discussion. You wouldn't sound half the idiot you sound now.

1. This was before the nerf. Units have 1.5 game seconds of immunity now. That didn't completely neutralize the archon toilet, but it did make it a lot harder to pull off.

2. That zerg player was a complete noob. As Husky pointed out, that was a seriously blunder running all his units into the vortex. He was basically asking to get obliterated.

3. I'm still waiting for a post-nerf replay of this allegedly "OP Mothership." This must be a unit that I am not yet aware of. Perhaps you are thinking of the Purifier from the campaign?

Seriously get off your silver throne and take the time to watch pro gamers streams/gsl/pro replays.
Or check the forums for the mothership discussion. You wouldn't sound half the idiot you sound now.

*yawn at elitism

01/20/2012 08:49 PMPosted by Tollbooth

*yawn at elitism

*psst* I hear they're removing the Mothership in HotS, so complaining for buffs to it probably won't work. The nexus is stealing the Mass Recall ability too.