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1. Ling/lings can get sniped 1 shot. Its silly for it to take 2 shots to kill it.
2. 19 snipes to kill ultralisks is a complete joke. It forces more ghosts out. All of the sudden ghosts became a combat massable unit rather than a tactical unit it should be.
3. Snipe wont be complete trash against zealots.
4. It can snipe marines 1 shot. This way ghost based openings in TvT wont be dead.
5. It can still 1 shot snipe workers.

how about 45 (25 to massve)

why do you feel the need to start a thread with a suggestion that is already being discussed elsewhere?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4044505219

19 snipes to kill ultralisks is a complete joke. It forces more ghosts out. All of the sudden ghosts became a combat massable unit rather than a tactical unit it should be.

That was the whole intent. Ghosts are not supposed to be used against Ultralisks.

I think making it 45/-15 to massive units would be more baalanced.

02/12/2012 07:49 AMPosted by Khobai

19 snipes to kill ultralisks is a complete joke. It forces more ghosts out. All of the sudden ghosts became a combat massable unit rather than a tactical unit it should be.

That was the whole intent. Ghosts are not supposed to be used against Ultralisks.

Problem, is what are terran supposed to use to counter Ultralisks if not ghosts? Thors tend to end up equal to them, and marauders aren't really that good either.

I'm fine with nerfing snipe but I think the currently planned nerf is too much. I think making snipe do 45 damage normally and make it do 15 less damage to massive units would be more balanced. That or make it affected by armor.

According to Blizzard snipe is slightly too good against Zerg tier 3 units. Solution? Nerf it almost 50% against all units except casters that can be EMP'd.

We need to remember that Blizzard employees are humans too. And what are most humans? Idiots.

02/12/2012 01:37 AMPosted by Nubula

how about 45 (25 to massve)

this is good :)

Problem, is what are terran supposed to use to counter Ultralisks if not ghosts? Thors tend to end up equal to them, and marauders aren't really that good either.

Tanks, I believe, are "supposed" to be the Terran answer to enemy "mech" (armored) units, though like you said, you could go for the straight up marauder/thor slugging match.
That said, Ultras are T3 and Zerg has poor AA capability - you could put a techlab on a Starport? That's going to be more important to get used to doing in HotS with the burrow-attack on the Ultras.

So, there's three options for the overly-flexible Terran race.

35+15 psionic

Don't forget that the Thor is being changed to a super unit in HotS, which means your only effective options vs Ultras will be Marauders or Banshees.

I totally agree with the damage nerf vs massive and leaving it as otherwise. Again, I have to say that I personally don't get why Ghosts don't just destroy armored units anyway given that they use an anti-tank rifle but since when does Blizzard give a damn about how militaries & weapons actually function.

Barring the damage change, a cooldown wouldn't be bad either. I mean, they're sniping right? You don't just make precision shots on the fly over & over, contrary to what Blizzard's parent company may have you believe with a certain FPS they publish. A 2-3 second delay would at least give the Zerg more time to get in a fungal growth or some banelings or what have you.

Personally I'd rather they increase the Broodlord's speed to compensate as they're a little too sluggish (like maybe +0.25)

I dont think blizzard intended snipe to counter ultras...
i think blizzard intended kiting to counter ultras...
also this: ultras are an expansive t3 unit, should they be easy to deal with?i mean so easy that is just comes down to gas dumping into ghosts and mass sniping the bajesus out of them? how about marauders? surely if you dont object to tech labs, you wont object to making marauders. Mass snipe is bordeline abusive, at least infested terrans only come out as eggs and you can either blow them up or run away, but its not like zerg can just go SURPRISE BUTTSECKS and all your tanks blow up

FYI: ling has 35 health...
and the only reason I like this change is that I think ghost should be able to 1-snipe baneling....

Here is another solution. Keep snipe dmg the same but add a 30 second cooldown to snipe so it can't be used as a energy dump. Problem solved.

+1 for 45 (-20 massive) or 50 (-25) massive makes way more sense than the current patch.

The current PTR patch makes ghosts pointless in the early game. The TvT builds where you get early ghosts and snipe your opponents marines were pretty slick. Now those builds don't work at all. I get the desire not to let Terrans mass ghosts in late game TvZ (though Ultras with support already do okay against ghosts), but the proposed patch really just kills the ghosts for anything but anti-caster uses.

How about actually MAKING the units you need to counter Broodlords.. ie Vikings // And having Marauders to counter Ultralisks (Instead of just wanting 1 unit to counter EVERYTHING)

Infestors should be the main target of ghosts in PvZ, not every single unit in the game...

you do realize, without snipe, ghosts can 2 shot lings right? did everyone forget they have an attack?

How about actually MAKING the units you need to counter Broodlords.. ie Vikings // And having Marauders to counter Ultralisks (Instead of just wanting 1 unit to counter EVERYTHING)

Infestors should be the main target of ghosts in PvZ, not every single unit in the game...

Then you leave yourself open to having zerglings pwn you. Marauders suck against zerglings.

Then you leave yourself open to having zerglings pwn you. Marauders suck against zerglings.

you still have tank....they one shot zergling (since you are talking about late game, tank should be 3/0)

02/15/2012 02:45 AMPosted by XxXxX

Then you leave yourself open to having zerglings pwn you. Marauders suck against zerglings.

you still have tank....they one shot zergling (since you are talking about late game, tank should be 3/0)

Friendly fire from Tanks would help to quickly end the lives of your own Marauders.

Barring the damage change, a cooldown wouldn't be bad either. I mean, they're sniping right? You don't just make precision shots on the fly over & over, contrary to what Blizzard's parent company may have you believe with a certain FPS they publish. A 2-3 second delay would at least give the Zerg more time to get in a fungal growth or some banelings or what have you.

Such a low cool down won't help at all in any way shape or form unless your only managing 1 or 2 ghosts at a time. If you have a handful of ghosts selected then you can still spam Snipe and by the time every ghost has expended there first Snipe the cool down will have passed letting you instantly move onto the Ghosts 2nd round of Snipe.

QXC on State of the Game mentioned 45 (-15 to massive) as a change to Snipe, and for my money that's my favorite suggestion for changing it so far.

I don't believe in hard counters. Ghosts (or Snipe) should not "counter" Ultralisks. It might be one method for managing fights against Ultralisks by putting down a lot of damage on them before they can engage, but I have some serious issues with the mentality that says, "You need to make 3 ghosts per ultralisk in order to hard counter zerg tier 3..." There are quite a few late-game Terran units that are largely unexplored in the tvz matchup - ravens and battlecruisers to name two. Auto-turrets and seeker missile can be used to zone ultras, yamato cannon is a nice BIG snipe, and ultras have this thing where they can't hit air. Point defense drones can be employed to keep battlecruisers alive. I recognize this is a big investment in gas for Terrans, but so is mass ghost.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be one of Blizzard's tactics to get people to actually try something new. Remember how infestors got their fungal damage buffed and suddenly zerg players everywhere realized that infestors were actually really good units... a bit too good. And then they got nerfed again but they still see a lot of use. Might see a bit of the reverse here; ghosts are overused, so they get the nerf bat until people find some alternate tactics, and then maybe they get buffed a little bit again so that they have a happy home in mainstream use.