StarCraft® II

Does our universe require time to exist?

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you aren't thinking big enough, because it is zero. Calculus was created for the purpose of solving problems which couldn't be solved with algebra,

Calculus is used to solve problems with "infinitely small numbers". The answer to x / ∞ is infinitely small, but not equal to 0. There's a reason for it being called "infinitely small" or "infinitesimal", instead of "0".
Edited by HuMoDz on 3/9/2012 9:21 AM PST
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This seems like a good thread in which to post the URL for...

http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white

<-- creative writing major back in the late '90s, studied audio engineering in the mid-'00s...the first time I'd heard of Planck Length was in Huang's "Scale of the Universe 2" web app :P




HOLY!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!
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pretty cool, but it shows the japanese spider crab being larger than a human being, i don't know what a japanese spider crab is but i doubt its bigger than me.


I dunno, Necro...they look pretty big from here:
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Macrocheira+kaempferi
Edited by Dotanuki on 3/9/2012 9:47 AM PST
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03/09/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Dotanuki
pretty cool, but it shows the japanese spider crab being larger than a human being, i don't know what a japanese spider crab is but i doubt its bigger than me.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltuwhlNywR1qk931ho1_500.jpg
The size in the swf must be of the biggest one found
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jesus that thing is huge, but its not bigger than a human being (unless the guy in the picture holding one was 7 and a half feet tall).
Edited by Necromaster on 3/9/2012 9:49 AM PST
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03/09/2012 09:13 AMPosted by MODAX
Com' on lads. Stick to the mission

and what is that?
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They can easily be bigger than humans.
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The "human being" measurement in the Scale web app is pretty generalized IIRC...five-foot six-inches? Something like that...how many millions of humans are above and below that measurement? The Japanese Spider Crab leg-span measurements are something like twelve feet! I think that counts as "bigger than human".

This seems like a good juncture in the thread to debate the characteristics of the swallows of Europe and Africa...
Edited by Dotanuki on 3/9/2012 9:55 AM PST
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Com' on lads. Stick to the mission

and what is that?


The quest for greater understanding of our shared human condition.
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This seems like a good juncture in the thread to debate the characteristics of the swallows of Europe and Africa...


No.

We must finish this.

Nec must accept that zero and infinite are not the same.
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zero and infinity are not the same number, dividing something by infinity merely gives you zero. As easy as it is to double think zero and infinity are the same number, I'm not that far gone yet.

03/09/2012 09:55 AMPosted by MODAX
The quest for greater understanding of our shared human condition.

I thought it was the nessacity and nature of time in the universe
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03/09/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Dotanuki
This seems like a good juncture in the thread to debate the characteristics of the swallows of Europe and Africa...

you can't do this without first disscussing the coconut, be it the characteristics it possess, or how it evolved.
so no it is not a good time.
lastly, i still have to teach everyone here calculus.
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Dammit Nec!!!

You owe me work hours lost on this >:(


Infinity a Concept, Not a Number

Date: 03/16/2003 at 01:08:54
From: Kaiser
Subject: 1/infinity

Hi everybody!

1/infinity = 0

In words, if 1 chocolate bar is divided among an infinite number of
people, no one gets anything! Where did the chocolate bar go?
Doesn't it imply that 1/infinity = infinitesimally small?

Date: 03/16/2003 at 02:06:09
From: Doctor Wallace
Subject: Re: 1/infinity

Hello Kaiser,

I think you have the basic idea down, but you may have also fallen
prey to a common misconception that I'd like to clear up.

Where did you get the idea that 1/infinity = 0?

The very sentence "1/infinity = 0" has no meaning. Why? Because
"infinity" is a concept, NOT a number. It is a concept that means
"limitlessness." As such, it cannot be used with any mathematical
operators. The symbols of +, -, x, and / are arithmetic operators, and
we can only use them for numbers.

To write 1/infinity and mean "1 divided by infinity" doesn't make any
sense. 1 cannot be divided by a concept. It can only be divided by
a number. Similarly, "infinity + 1" or "2 times infinity" are also
meaningless.

As another example, what does this mean: "1 / justice = 5"?

That's right! It is as meaningless as "1 / infinity = 0" because
justice is a concept, not a number.

In math, when you hear people say things like "1 over infinity is
zero" what they are usually referring to is something called a limit.
They are just using a kind of shorthand, however. They do NOT mean
that 1 can actually be divided by infinity. Instead, they mean that,
if you divide 1 by successively higher numbers, the result becomes
closer and closer to 0. If I divide 1 by a very large number, like a
billion, then I get one-billionth, which is a VERY small number, but
it isn't 0. Since there is no largest number, I can always divide 1 by
a bigger number. But that will just produce an even smaller number,
right? It will NEVER produce 0, no matter how high I go. But since the
answer to the division is getting closer to and closer to 0, we say
that "the limit of the expression is zero." But we have still not
divided anything by infinity, since that isn't a number.

To go back to your chocolate bar, what if you divide it among every
person living on earth? Each person would get roughly 1 six-billionth
of a chocolate bar. That's a very, very small amount, and you'd
probably need a microscope to see your piece, but it wouldn't be zero,
right? Ah, but you asked about dividing it up amongst an infinite
number of people. Well, we can't. Why? Because infinity isn't a
number, so you can't show me an infinite number of people. If you try
to, I will just add one more person, and then we'd realize that the
number you thought was "infinity" actually wasn't.

So, to finish up, you are perfectly correct in saying that "1/infinity
= infinitesimally small." But only if you realize that you REALLY mean
"1 divided by a REALLY big number is a REALLY small number."

Thanks for writing to Dr. Math. Don't hesitate to write again if you
need further help with this or another question.

- Doctor Wallace, The Math Forum
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/







Case mother f'ing closed.


<na seriously, man hugz :) >
Edited by MODAX on 3/9/2012 10:11 AM PST
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you can't put numbers to an abstract concept, however infinity is an abstract conceptual number. Very well, i will accept that infinity isn't a number if "i " is also not a number.
Edited by Necromaster on 3/9/2012 10:18 AM PST
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Why? Because "infinity" is a concept, NOT a number.


-Doctor Wallace


You have to know when to admit defeat.





What does Infinity Divided by Infinity Equal?



At first, you may think that infinity divided by infinity equals one. After all, any number divided by itself is equal to one, however infinity is not a real or rational number. I am going to prove what infinity divided by infinity really equals, and you may not like the answer.

First, I am going to define this axiom (assumption) that infinity divided by infinity is equal to one:




= 1


Since ∞ = ∞ + ∞, then we are going to substitute the first infinity in our axiom:

∞ + ∞
———

= 1


The next step is to split this fraction into two fractions:




+ ∞


= 1


Next, substitute the axiom twice into the equation, we get:

1 + 1 = 1


Finally, this can be rewritten as:

2 = 1


Therefore, infinity divided by infinity is NOT equal to one. Instead we can get any real number to equal to one when we assume infinity divided by infinity is equal to one, so infinity divided by infinity is undefined.



If you still do not believe me, let's try proving this another way. Let's start with our axiom again.




= 1


Next, split this fraction into two parts.

∞ * 1


= 1


Solve the fraction.

∞ * 0.000..1 = 1


This is equal to:

∞ * 0 = 1


At first, you may assume that infinity times zero is equal to zero and that would make zero equal to one too. However, infinity times any number is undefined. Therefore, infinity divided by infinity is also undefined.

Another way of looking at this is that no one can EVER finish multiplying zero times infinity, therefore the answer will always be undefined. Even though logic dictates that the answer will never not be zero, this answer will never be reached. Therefore, trying to multiple zero times infinity is undefined.


Here are the rules:
1. Infinity divided by a finite number is infinite (I / f = I); 2. Any finite number divided by infinity is a number infinitesimally larger than, but never equal to, zero (f / I = 1 / I); 3. Infinity divided by infinity is one (I / I = 1), or in fact any other positive number (I / I = and so on...); 4. Infinity multiplied by zero (no infinity) is zero (I * 0 = 0); 5. Infinity divided by a positive finite number is infinity (I / +f = I); 6. Infinity divided by a negative finite number is minus infinity (I / -f = -I); 7. Infinity divided by zero is not possible; 8. Infinity plus infinity is infinity (I + I = I); 9. Zero divided by infinity (nothing divided into infinity) equals zero (0 / I = 0); 10. Infinity plus a finite number is infinity (I + f = I); 11. Infinity minus a finite number is infinity (I - f = I); but 12. Infinity minus infinity, due to the nature of infinity, can be zero, infinity, or minus infinity (I - I = -I, 0, I).
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03/09/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Dotanuki
This seems like a good juncture in the thread to debate the characteristics of the swallows of Europe and Africa...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcLQRXW6B0
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if infinity is a concept and not a number then all the math rules you just listed don't apply. However it is a concept of a number, which means you can do math with it, the math is just weird. Kinda like non-real numbers and complex numbers.
lim sin(x)/x
x-->0
basically it asks as x approaches zero what does y equal.
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Smart people disagree with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinitesimal
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03/09/2012 10:28 AMPosted by MODAX
You have to know when to admit defeat.

never admit defeat, never back down from a challenge, and never surrender.
however that said i would be willing to agree to an armistice.
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