StarCraft® II

Zerg need a tier one anti air unit.

Posts: 503
If only you could get queens an off creep speed upg:(
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Posts: 613
I'm leery of both your ideas, Brutus and Legion. The Queen isn't actually all too bad a combat unit, so any more aids on the combat-side of things risk making her over powered.
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Posts: 1
it amazes me how complicated u guys make things...
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Posts: 40
What do we need a fast AA for? The only real threat we have from air are void rays and banshees (somewhat phoenix, but not too bad.)

There is no reason why you shouldn't have spore crawlers, a spire, or hydras up by the time they get air units. You really don't have to scout if they're going air in most leagues because you will have the tech for one of the three anyways.

Sure, give us more anti-air, but it just goes to waste.
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Posts: 613
What do we need a fast AA for? The only real threat we have from air are void rays and banshees (somewhat phoenix, but not too bad.)

There is no reason why you shouldn't have spore crawlers, a spire, or hydras up by the time they get air units. You really don't have to scout if they're going air in most leagues because you will have the tech for one of the three anyways.

Sure, give us more anti-air, but it just goes to waste.

Easy for you to say, you cheat!

(In all seriousness, I agree with you, more anti-air that early just seems redundant)
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Posts: 20
@ goyathla Your the one so far not acting like an adult. As to anti-air early game for zerg the queen and spore crawlers are barely good enough to counter a phoenix void ray combo i get hit with. I would like to see every building the zerg have gain the ability to have an univeral attack of 10 to ground and air with the attack rate of the spine crawler. Because its what i would have if i was a zerg. It cannot be that hard to leave an "attacking" organism on the building they have the broodlings inside anyway. Or more reasonable thing would be to let spore crawlers come out of larva instead of the drone, frees up supply and can have anti-air early on.
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Posts: 613
You're being hit by Void Rays while you're in Tier One? You are clearly doing something terribly, terribly wrong... That seems like less an issue of the game, and more an issue of poor planning/tactical decisions.
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Posts: 17
I think the real issue is that pretty much no mater what terr is going to have rines and toss is going to have stalkers, but I usually only make hydras in response to air as roach/ling does much better against ground early/midish game when people are getting closer to air. So like someone said earlier you have more to worry about as zerg because you dont have the backbone of your army as a ground and aa unit like the rine and stalker...that being said....scout the faking map and stop whining about people saying tier or timing...god the forums are so out of hand sometimes lol
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Posts: 74
In equal numbers, mutalisk destroy Hydralisk and can even be cost effective. Mutalisks can not engage a terran's marines or a Protoss's stalkers cost effectively. This is why I get frustrated with mutalisks.
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Posts: 613
05/21/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Limitless
In equal numbers, mutalisk destroy Hydralisk and can even be cost effective. Mutalisks can not engage a terran's marines or a Protoss's stalkers cost effectively. This is why I get frustrated with mutalisks.

Admittedly, I have never toed-off against another Zerg player, but it seems like Queens and Spore Colonies would both murder Mutalisks with little issue.
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Posts: 11,054
it seems like Queens and Spore Colonies would both murder Mutalisks with little issue.

Maybe in your happiest dreams where they attack move 7 Mutas toward two Spores when all of your Queens happen to be there.
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Posts: 11
As far as tiers, I believe it works this way:
Zerg is pretty straightforward
Terran Tier 1 is barracks units, while 2 is normal factory/starport units, and 3 is units that require another building (BC and Thor)
Toss tier 1 is Gateway minus DT and HT, T2 is normal stargate/Robo and DT+HT, and T3 is units that once again need a secondary building (Carrier and Colossus, though technically DT+HT and Archon fit that description too)
Quit your arguing
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Posts: 613
it seems like Queens and Spore Colonies would both murder Mutalisks with little issue.

Maybe in your happiest dreams where they attack move 7 Mutas toward two Spores when all of your Queens happen to be there.

Though I agree Mutalisks can kill Queens by "a series of bug bites", in a stand-up fight the Queen utterly dominates. And Spore Colonies win no matter what tactic the Mutalisk uses.
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Posts: 528
03/14/2012 09:39 AMPosted by Razgriz
STalker???
i think u need an assimilator for stalkers......
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Posts: 558
There are no tiers in StarCraft 2. The tech trees of all three races aren't set up in a linear path. One exception to this could be Zerg with hatchery->lair->hive, but what meaning does that have if it's only relevant to one of three races? Terran's barracks->factory->starport don't mean anything because, even though, say, a medivac is from the highest tech building, it can still be created more quickly than a thor. Good luck trying to make any sense out of Protoss.

Furthermore, a lower "tier" of unit can become significantly more powerful with upgrades from a higher tier. Think cracklings, charge zealot, blink stalkers. Do these upgraded units still belong to their original (and nonexistent) tier? If they do, how can one make an argument based on tiers when the strength of a tier's units varies wildly at different parts of a game?

Because of these discrepancies, we see a wide variety of definitions for tiers. There is no official tier list and none of them are generally agreed upon. How can you define something if no one is sure of exactly what it is?

Lastly, the game was not created with the intention of higher tiered units outright crushing lower tiered units. There's nothing wrong having to make tier 3 colossi to counter tier 1 marines and there's nothing wrong with tier 3 carriers being countered by tier 1 marines. Is pressing C to build a colossus any more difficult than pressing A to train marines? Should the person who pressed C be given a higher reward? Surely not, at least not in any sensible world.

Here is what I ask:
1. Focus instead on whether or not creating colossi or high templar is viable as a way to counter Terran bio (one example of many).
2. Refer to units not by their tier but by their timing. For example, a zergling is an early game unit and a brood lord is a late game unit.
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Posts: 1,362
03/14/2012 12:07 AMPosted by Romeo
You mean like the Hydralisk? I recognize it's not the best anti-air out of the gates, but then again, no one has air at tier one anyways, so it's kind've irrelevent...

Hydra's considered a t2 unit cause you need lair before you can build it. Marines are t1 with anti air and stalkers are inbetween cause you only need 1 add on.
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Posts: 613
06/22/2012 04:27 AMPosted by kavinh
You mean like the Hydralisk? I recognize it's not the best anti-air out of the gates, but then again, no one has air at tier one anyways, so it's kind've irrelevent...

Hydra's considered a t2 unit cause you need lair before you can build it. Marines are t1 with anti air and stalkers are inbetween cause you only need 1 add on.

So then... Queen. And again, given the lack of air units at Tier 1, it's irrelevent.
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Posts: 5
I think queens should be a larvae based unit like everything else in Zerg. Then you could react to air faster and your production wouldn't be screwed while hatch is evolving. I would even accept a hit point nerf. I also like the idea of a post-lair upgrade for queen movement of creep.
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Posts: 114
Someone mentioned as a joke about zerglings but it gave me an idea.
A roach morph that turns them into an anti air unit but can only attack air while burrowed (similar to siege tank change). Would require burrow from hatchery and an addition upgrade from the roach warren prior to burrowed movement and could be used in conjunction with the other roach upgrades. Roaches could be visible during attacks against air units.

I think the issue some zerg players have is having to (not including overlords, pylons or depot) Spawning pool>hatchery upgrade>Hydralisk Den Just to get some mobile AA while Toss require only gate>core & Terran are right off the bat with their barracks. A lot of the same zerg players are often the ones guilty of not scouting like they should early game and knowing how to detect enemy tactics. In most cases early to air rush is best countered by defense at base with spore/queen.. most zerg tend to want to be more aggressive like BW but...huzzah.. this is WoL.
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Posts: 6,086
uhhh... note that Protoss get tier 1 air in HotS.
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