StarCraft® II

Stop complaining about the lurker.

Posts: 210
You need to understand why swarm host is needed and lurker isnt. Lurker in sc2 was to be able to hit smaller units with nice splash. Helloooo, this role is already filled by baneling! The swarm host is excellent because it is able to lay siege on a turtling terran or protoss. This is something that zerg really doesn't have (dont even mention brood lords, those come out usually at like 20 min mark -.-).

Ling/Lurker is to Brood Wars as Ling/Bane is to Starcraft 2. Please try to understand that, people.
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Posts: 2,561
The SC2 lurker actualy had a upgrade that gave it a range of 8 or 9, so it was actualy a damn decent seige unit.

The reason it isnt in SC2 is not because banelings do the job, but becasue no one used them in the alpha.

The reason no one used them in the alpha was two fold
1. they followed the hydra techpath, and at the time roaches were CRAZY overpowered, rapid reginerating while above ground able to shoot air, and just all round making hydralisks entirely obsolete.
2. it was hive tech, they basicly came way late in the game when detection was readily availavle to all.
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Posts: 1,728
1. Did you just read the explanation for why the lurker was removed? A suicide one time unit is not a good replacement for a unit that could be useful for defensive situations.

2. Lurker wasn't paid much attention to. Now everyone's crying to have it back.

3. They randomly placed it at Hive tech when placing it at Lair tech makes so much more sense.

4. Apparently a unit with a slow spawning ability is a "Good" replacement for one that can provide so much more support.
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Posts: 8,199
When it comes to Blizzard and balance, nothing is "random". They try to do their best and go with what looks like the best ideas given the feedback, but they can't accurately predict how the community will react.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 4/21/2012 10:12 AM PDT
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Posts: 2,472
1. Did you just read the explanation for why the lurker was removed? A suicide one time unit is not a good replacement for a unit that could be useful for defensive situations.

2. Lurker wasn't paid much attention to. Now everyone's crying to have it back.

3. They randomly placed it at Hive tech when placing it at Lair tech makes so much more sense.

4. Apparently a unit with a slow spawning ability is a "Good" replacement for one that can provide so much more support.


1) The easily massable suicide unit is more versatile unit, it can be used in defensive situations (burrow mines) and easily in an offensive one. The Lurker is slower and can't be used in front line fighting like the Baneling.

2) I know, and I miss it too, but people shouldn't cry so much about it.

3) The Hydralisk Den transforms into a Lurker Den much like a Spire transforms into a Greater Spire. It seems rather cool to me. I guess it could happen at Lair though.

4) I feel like a broken record. The Swarm Host is a worthy replacement for the Lurker. I'm not going to repeat myself for the 1000th time.

Sorry, long day.
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Posts: 126
1. Did you just read the explanation for why the lurker was removed? A suicide one time unit is not a good replacement for a unit that could be useful for defensive situations.

2. Lurker wasn't paid much attention to. Now everyone's crying to have it back.

3. They randomly placed it at Hive tech when placing it at Lair tech makes so much more sense.

4. Apparently a unit with a slow spawning ability is a "Good" replacement for one that can provide so much more support.


wow that's a total 360 from what you've said before. and i had such hope for you.
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Posts: 3,300
The Lurker was used like crazy in Brood War. I don't understand why it's not in this game. It's like they don't care that Zerg has a hard time defending their bases. The Swarm Host isn't a defensive unit, but it's not a true a siege unit either. It doesn't have a "free" attack any more than a Siege Tank has a free attack. It doesn't have an attack that always does damage and the Locusts can die before they do any damage to the enemy. Also, I feel the Lurker is better because it does AoE damage instead of melee. I understand that these units are very different, but if I had to pick, I would roll with the Lurker.

Here's a pro game involving Lurkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZif-GOCt4Q

A video I made showing Lurkers defending a base:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm3sYLFVtfE
Edited by Migrax on 4/24/2012 12:25 AM PDT
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Posts: 889
Lurkers are OP, me and a few friends played BGH together in SC2 (it had all the old units) and we eliminated everyone except me and one of my friends (who is far better than me at SC2).

Lurkers turned the thing into a darn stalemate. Whoever attacked lost.

The AOE is just too powerful to be able to balance right. It *might* be more bearable if they put in the loud attack noise like in BW. That way at least you knew lurkers were there.
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Posts: 1,728
04/22/2012 12:38 AMPosted by Deimos
wow that's a total 360 from what you've said before. and i had such hope for you.


Nah bro 360 is for COD. I'm saying they both suck and Zerg needs a better siege unit.
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Posts: 212
so banelings and lurkers can't co-exist, but for 11 years, lurkers and infested terrans can co-exist?
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Posts: 53
04/27/2012 04:11 AMPosted by ZerglingsInc
so banelings and lurkers can't co-exist, but for 11 years, lurkers and infested terrans can co-exist?


lol I loved infested terrans when I was zerg with a terran partner. Defense matrix those bad boys in a massed ling rush was op, but infested terrans didn't get used much to be honest.
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Posts: 1,381
04/27/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Silphyre
so banelings and lurkers can't co-exist, but for 11 years, lurkers and infested terrans can co-exist?


lol I loved infested terrans when I was zerg with a terran partner. Defense matrix those bad boys in a massed ling rush was op, but infested terrans didn't get used much to be honest.

In all honesty Infested Terrans were sort of like Motherships. They weren't units that saw competitive play only because they required to much. You have to get a command center down to red, rush a queen over there, and wait ten seconds or so while it gets infested. And now you have a command center right next to the enemy base. Good luck getting it back. It has liftoff but it's Brood War liftoff, so it'll probably get three feet before getting swarmed by goliaths. If you got Infested Terrans your opponent was either bad or it was just BM.

Having said that I enjoyed the hell out of them. Fond memories of blowing apart entire bioballs in one shot. And then forgetting it does splash damage to my own army and losing all my lings.

At least the mothership is now seeing some solid use in competitive lategame PvZ, which is why I'm sort of sad to see it removed.

And Ultra, Lurkers were THE key to ZvT, I don't think it was ever under-appreciated. I can see why people are complaining, but I think we're too narrowminded with "BRING BACK OLD STUFF OLD STUFF GOOD." Let Blizzard flex their creative muscle, I honestly thought the best units in Starcraft II were the ones the new ones (Sentry, Hellion, Raven, ect) while units like the hydras felt sort of bland.

And for God's sake, don't judge the swarm host until beta. We don't even know its stats, for all we know it could invalidate bioballs vs Zerg completely. There's a fine line between theroycrafting as to how the unit will work and "THIS UNIT SUX BLIZZ IS STOOPID" without trying the unit.
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Posts: 1,286
I was thinking the other day, banelings will be able to move at hive tech underground. That means we can set up defenses for drops with burrowed banelings and they can move to it without being detected. They would also act as lurkers even more so because they'd be able to actually move to their targets instead of getting a lucky mine.

Yeah by the time hive tech rolls around they will have detection, but I think just having the ability once detection has been sniped and to help stop drops is gonna be cool.

swarm host is gonna be cool because it can siege an enemies natural from half way across the map.
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Posts: 901
The role of the lurker is not filled by the baneling or infestor. The lurker was a consistant siege splash unit. The baneling and infestor are not consistant, banelings can attack once and energy does not regen very fast. I'm not saying that i don't like the swarm host just that its role wasnt filled at all.
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Posts: 20
The Lurker

Okay if your going with the evolution thing then the Brood Lord and the Zerg Host dont make any sense. The Guardian and the Lurker are much easier on the zerg unit, instead of produceing probably minllions of the broodlings. A better idea would've been to give the Guardian the area attack of 4 per shot. Also the price and build time for the Brood Lord and Lurker in this new game is to long. The roll of the Lurker was choke control, and to use against the marine ball. The Lurker in this game should be used for mid-game MMM, and choke control sense this game has a shix ton of those and banelings dont do a good enough job at countering anything but once. The reason they got rid of the scourge from BW, is the same reason they should in SC2 HotS the "throw away units" that are redundant if they kept the lurker. The Banelings are good against the protoss and terran build-ins for the zergling rush prevent, but you have to have alot of them to even make it to the door which isn't a very effective evolutionary strain for the "Brood". In closeing the Baneling isn't effective its defective and the swarm would do away with them or lessen the use of them putting them on the Spawning pool as an up grade makes more sense than a building as far as Im concerned.

Thank you
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Posts: 212
IDC what anybody sais, lurker is better then swarm host.
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Posts: 378
Why are people daying that swarm host is the lurker replacement??...

Its not...the one thing in common is has with lurker is it doest stuff underground...

SH is a seige unit (its pretty MADE to assult bases, can be used for more reasons but thats its main use)

Lurker is an artillery unit ( get it in the right position, and if its not taken out quick, the other army goes down.)

Lurker CAN be used as seige unit, and SH CAN be used as a support unit, not artillery but an army support unit.

I would like both in the game personally but thats my view on it...
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Posts: 300
Random comment, but I'm calling it now: Lurker will be the base unit in HotS campaign, with swarm host as one of the mutations.
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Posts: 424
I'm coming to the conclusion that banelings at higher levels of skill are very weak units. Once terrans started to split and micro marines, banelings become very ineffective. When a terran is 'streaming' marines down to the zerg, trying to constantly evolve banelings and use them to effectively to wipe out marines is brutal.

At least a lurker was a permanent unit that was good at defense against mass infantry. I'm not so sure the new units will be able to prop up the anti-marine ball.
Edited by CarlosSpicy on 6/6/2012 9:36 PM PDT
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