StarCraft® II

What ever happened to the UED?

Posts: 129
Seriously, this is a huge plot hole that the SC universe is facing here... Earth sends a massive armada to seize control of the dominion and prevent the protoss and zerg threats from ever having a chance of reaching earth and get completely whiped out and now earth is never even mentioned?

I understand that the UED's invasion was a complete failure, but still, with being so close to victory the first time yet seeing a huge threat growing, why would earth just forget about coming back? Also, I don't believe that earth doesn't have any knowledge of what happened in brood war, they were closely watching all of the events that occurred in the first game undetected, so how is it possible they wouldn't know what happened in this game, especially since all the fleet has to do is send a single signal and bam, updated.

Hopefully in HOTs we'll see some United Earth Directorate action because that was my favourite part of brood war and by far my favourite campaign.
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Posts: 8,849
Bringing them back would be too repetitive AND confusing for newcomers, given how unimportant they are to the current story. Besides, HotS already has a strong Terran antagonist: Arcturus Mengsk and the Dominion. Between this and the Hybrids, the UED would be nothing more than a meaningless distraction.
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Posts: 14,127
They lost a huge fleet. Why would they want to come back? Let the sector fry, save resources for more important things. Like maybe defense if zerg ever get to earth.
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Posts: 4,740
They got their asses handed to them by Kerrigan. That is what happened to them. The entire fleet got destroyed and I am pretty sure the UED is not gonna send another massive airforce to the sector.
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Posts: 8,849
To be perfectly fair, though, I think they could have been an interesting big bad in a sequel, once all the stuff with the Overmind's legacy and the Xel'Naga has been taken care off. Maybe it could still work for, say, SC3, but as I said, right now there's no shortage of villains to take care of.
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Posts: 2,848
Travel time. Earth is lightyears away
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Posts: 8,849
Not necessarily. Between the time the Zerg began invading the Koprulu Sector and the beginning of Brood War, only a few months had passed at best. Is it a plothole or is Earth really that close? Who knows... Back then, Blizzard had yet to nail down all the details regarding the lore: in SC64's secret mission, for instance, you were introduced to a 1000-year old Dragoon who claimed to have served under Adun.

I really wish Blizzard could make some kind of star map.
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Posts: 1,363
Okay.
For all you idgits still asking about this, here is how war works.
Send Scouting fleet (The UED in Brood War)
Scout fleet returns, you can go to wherever the scouts were sent and take over
Scout doesn't come back, obviously not safe and not worth attempting to take over.
You killed the UED scouting force in BW, so obviously the UED aren't gonna go;
"Oh herpa derpa our whole mini fleet was killed lets waste more lives attacking again!
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Posts: 8,849
Well, they apparently did not need a scouting fleet, as they could monitor the activities in the Kopruulu Sector from Earth's safety. Heck, they even somehow managed to learn about the Overmind's existence, something that very few Terrans were aware of at the time.

So we have to assume the UED's fleet in Brood War was really the best they could do. :/
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Posts: 129
Okay.
For all you idgits still asking about this, here is how war works.
Send Scouting fleet (The UED in Brood War)
Scout fleet returns, you can go to wherever the scouts were sent and take over
Scout doesn't come back, obviously not safe and not worth attempting to take over.
You killed the UED scouting force in BW, so obviously the UED aren't gonna go;
"Oh herpa derpa our whole mini fleet was killed lets waste more lives attacking again!


wtf? that was not a scout fleet you moron, what kinda crack did your dirty mom smoke when she was pregnant with you? The whole goal from the beginning was to topple the dominion, take control of the zerg, and neutralize all alien threats, being protoss, zerg, and anything not human. Admiral dugal makes this very clear in the first mission briefing when he describes objectives of their campaign.

Besides, the UED didn't need a 'scouting force' they already knew exactly what was going on and where everything was, hence why they knew everything about mengsk, all his colonies, the protoss, the zerg, and the overmind before they even got there, like seriously, are you mentally retarded? Why the hell would you send a scouting force to confirm info you already know? And what kinda of scouting fleet is going to have the firepower to take down the dominion, fight the protoss, invade char and enslave the overmind (#2 that is) when no other forces in the sector could? It was called the "UED ARMADA" for a reason you dumb inbred bigot.

I honestly have no clue how anyone could ever get such an assumption and still be stupid enough to call other people idiots for thinking the correct thing...
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Posts: 129
04/23/2012 11:15 AMPosted by FrostyPyro
Travel time. Earth is lightyears away


lol i really dont mean to be a jerk but lightyears isn't a measure of time... its a measure of distance...

Not necessarily. Between the time the Zerg began invading the Koprulu Sector and the beginning of Brood War, only a few months had passed at best. Is it a plothole or is Earth really that close? Who knows... Back then, Blizzard had yet to nail down all the details regarding the lore: in SC64's secret mission, for instance, you were introduced to a 1000-year old Dragoon who claimed to have served under Adun.

I really wish Blizzard could make some kind of star map.


This
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Posts: 129
04/22/2012 04:39 PMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
Bringing them back would be too repetitive AND confusing for newcomers, given how unimportant they are to the current story. Besides, HotS already has a strong Terran antagonist: Arcturus Mengsk and the Dominion. Between this and the Hybrids, the UED would be nothing more than a meaningless distraction.


I like your point and think its a strong argument, but i don't think they'd present a meaningless distraction In fact all of the antigonists you describe were already in brood war. Arcturus Mengsk, the hybrids, and the UED. Also, the UED weren't necessarily antigonists, except for the fact that all the other races team up to destroy them, the main antigonist in the story line ends up being Kerrigan, she was the ultimate villain who tricked everyone into giving her exactly what she wanted and then pretty much killing everything that was a threat to her, hence fenix and Dulke. Besides, are we really going to see the hybrids that much in HOTs? It seems to me that the hybrids won't really make their full appearance till the protoss expansion, they'll just make random appearances like they did in this game.

So having seen that brood war handled several different factions in a very in depth and well constructed storyline, there's no reasons at all to say that this would complicate things, in any way really...

04/22/2012 05:13 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
They lost a huge fleet. Why would they want to come back? Let the sector fry, save resources for more important things. Like maybe defense if zerg ever get to earth.


Hmmm... although understandable to think that way, here's the problem with your logic...

You see a growing force that is dominating everything else and threatening to wipe out all of humanity, and this is a force that only grows like exponentially after every colony if invades. Now, if you sit there on you planet, beef up your defenses, and wait for them to just come to you, then you'll pretty much already have lost by the time they get to you. You will have an enemy force so large that it will exceed the population of the entire earth and all of its colonies put together, let alone its military, and there will be nothing in the existence of man that will stop it. Think about it, the protoss were at their peak when invaded by the zerg on Auir and still lost, why the hell do you think that earth would survive?

Now having said that, the UED invaded last time after the zerg were separated into their cerebrate groups and kerrigan, which is ultimately (along with the psi disrupter) the reason why they managed to conquer them. So now that kerrigan is no longer infested, the zerg dispersed, and half the dominion fleet in ruins (thnx to Valerian's assault on char) there is no better time than now for the UED to take an express route to Korhal and open up a can of Earth flavoured whoop A.S.S!
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Posts: 8,849
Fenix and Duke were no threat to Kerrigan in BW: Raynor, Zeratul and Mengsk were. Yet she let the latters go.

Shoehorning the UED in HotS would indeed be a meaningless distraction: Kerrigan has to take care of Arcturus Mengsk, you have Valerian who's preparing his political future, you have Raynor being torn between his feelings for Sarah and his sense of justice, you have Dr. Narud scheming in the shadows, you have the Hybrids starting to invade the Koprulu Sector... Who cares about the UED at this point? There are more important things to take care of than some second-rate Terran faction that has no influence on the sector's activities whatsoever.

Besides, HotS has already a strong antagonistic Terran faction: it's the Dominion. That's more than enough.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 4/24/2012 6:33 AM PDT
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Posts: 129
04/24/2012 06:32 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
Fenix and Duke were no threat to Kerrigan in BW: Raynor, Zeratul and Mengsk were. Yet she let the latters go.


lmao Wrong...

Direct quote from Kerrigan right before you begin the mission of killing fenix and duke...
"... though they have proven themselves to be usefull it might be dangerous to allow them to live. Without the services of General Duke, Mengsk will be easy to deal with. But Raynor and Fenix uncannily resourcefull... they must all be eradicated."

she lets mengsk live as revenge so he can watch her grow to power and one day take over everything.. she never says why she lets raynor live, but seeing how that wouldn't be the first time she spared him right when he was in her grasp, its fair to assume that she still has some sentiment for him (at least in BW), the conversation they have after killing fenix actually kinda confirms it.

Shoehorning the UED in HotS would indeed be a meaningless distraction:


Either didn't actually play through brood war or you're don't remember anything... In brood war you fight Daggoth's broods(z) (who are actually the main antigonists in the protoss mission), whats left of the conclave(p), The Dominion(t), The UED(t), The Kel Morian Combine(t), even a fringe terran colony while playing toss to obtain one of the crystals (t) and then eventually literally everyone else whose left... That was the story that won awards, that was the story line that made starcraft the greatest RTS (maybe even computer game) ever made... what your insisting is that we severely dumb down a story line because you think more than ONE terran faction is too distracting and confusing rofl, I'm sorry that's just a little bit ridiculous...

you have the Hybrids starting to invade the Koprulu Sector

Not happening, way too early for the hybrids to make a strong appearance, there will be the odd "omg what is that, lets kill it" moment but its very clear that blizzard is focused on kerrigan defeating mengsk and coming to peace with being kerrigan... the hybrid INVASION will start during the toss chapter, not the zerg chapter, they're still being cultivated and awaiting their awakening...

Besides if you've ever read any of the books (lol or played all of BW), you'd know that the UED is still very much active in the sector, they actually have several strong holds active and are still fighting to over throw the emperor... This is a very easy to expand formula, now i know you probably won't be able to bring them to HOT's but certainly in the toss chapter.. here's an example:
- Mengsk is dead,
- kerrigan goes off to do her own thing and leave humanity alone like promised
- the toss start to see invading hybrid armies attacking frindge terran colonies and even protoss colonies
- out of the blue the UED show up (like they did in BW) and start trying to regain control of the sector.. at this point the toss now have the UED (great terran antigonist), left over zerg broods, the taldarim, and the hybrids to fight. Thats all races covered for the campaign and a great mix in drama just like in BW.
- Eventually after the UED witnessing the real threat (hybrids) near the end they decide to team up with raynor and the toss, and maybe the dominion, to help destroy the hybrids...
Unfortunately their forces are not enough, but at the last second Kerrigan makes a sudden return with her broods and this leads to the final mission that involves the final battle against the hybrids with terran, and zerg support as you play toss...
- there, you now have brood war #2 with all loose ends covered, no obvious plot holes, and a killer epic ending, all of humanity, zerg and protoss again the single greatest threat the universe will ever see.

Besides, HotS has already a strong antagonistic Terran faction: it's the Dominion. That's more than enough.


still not getting it...
yes, you've said that already, if it wasn't a valid point the first time why would it be the second time? lol
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Posts: 8,849
Direct quote from Kerrigan right before you begin the mission of killing fenix and duke...
"... though they have proven themselves to be usefull it might be dangerous to allow them to live. Without the services of General Duke, Mengsk will be easy to deal with. But Raynor and Fenix uncannily resourcefull... they must all be eradicated."

she lets mengsk live as revenge so he can watch her grow to power and one day take over everything.. she never says why she lets raynor live, but seeing how that wouldn't be the first time she spared him right when he was in her grasp, its fair to assume that she still has some sentiment for him (at least in BW), the conversation they have after killing fenix actually kinda confirms it.


Duke was an incompetent and a stooge. Mengsk didn't really need him, as he proved his resourcefulness by showing up in "Omega" with a brand-new fleet. Yet Kerrigan spared him again.

The conversation Kerrigan had with Raynor after Fenix's death doesn't prove she still has some sentiment for him, quite the opposite: she mocks him, ridiculing his reaction to Fenix's death and his ability to avenge him. She didn't let Raynor live, she just... failed to kill him somehow.

As for Fenix himself, he wasn't particularly dangerous: in fact, he already died once.

That was the story that won awards, that was the story line that made starcraft the greatest RTS (maybe even computer game) ever made... what your insisting is that we severely dumb down a story line because you think more than ONE terran faction is too distracting and confusing rofl, I'm sorry that's just a little bit ridiculous...


... StarCraft won awards for its story? Never heard of that.

The fact is, the UED indeed dumbed down the story: instead of continuing with existing plot threads (Raynor's feud with Mengsk, the Overmind's legacy, the Protoss assimilation, the actual brood war between Kerrigan and Daggoth), Brood War focused on a meaningless conflict focusing on a filler and incompetent Terran faction that we never got to properly know and got utterly wiped out by the end of the game.

They didn't bring anything new to the story nor the lore: they were just a meaningless distraction.

Not happening, way too early for the hybrids to make a strong appearance, there will be the odd "omg what is that, lets kill it" moment but its very clear that blizzard is focused on kerrigan defeating mengsk and coming to peace with being kerrigan... the hybrid INVASION will start during the toss chapter, not the zerg chapter, they're still being cultivated and awaiting their awakening...


During the last Blizzcon, Brian Kindregan stated that we would fight plenty of Hybrids in HotS.

Besides if you've ever read any of the books (lol or played all of BW), you'd know that the UED is still very much active in the sector, they actually have several strong holds active and are still fighting to over throw the emperor...


... They do not even appear in WoL, aside for a random Goliath mercenary squad.

Aside from a few extras posing as UED marines during a ghost training exercise in the Ghost Academy comic books and some vagues rumors in Spectres (the UED doesn't actually appear in the novel), the UED is utterly absent in post-BW lore. Even the writers confirmed during the last Blizzcon that we shouldn't expect to see them again in SC2.

Seriously, when was the last time you played Brood War?
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 4/25/2012 7:10 AM PDT
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Posts: 266
Honestly i'd chalk it up to the politics of the entire fleet being wiped out, probably still building back the armada, and even if they arn't its a open question who's in charge and what motives they have. Generally speaking things are complicated enough with mensk etc all.
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Posts: 726
After losing that huge fleet I would imagine Earth would be loath to spend bajillions to send another. Maybe they even think that the fleet was never destroyed. The UED doesn't have ansibles. If the fleet sent out any messages to Earth, it wouldn't get there for decades assuming that Earth is very far away.
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Posts: 8
Shouldn't the UED be 250 years more advanced than the Terran? It always bugged me how they used the same weapons as the Terran in BW (obviously they did this for gameplay reasons). Anyway, I'm sure they'll make a return in another sequel or expansion. Seeing as they were more liberal with the campaign units in this game, I'd like to see unique UED units if they decide to reintroduce them.

04/25/2012 06:59 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
The fact is, the UED indeed dumbed down the story: instead of continuing with existing plot threads (Raynor's feud with Mengsk, the Overmind's legacy, the Protoss assimilation, the actual brood war between Kerrigan and Daggoth), Brood War focused on a meaningless conflict focusing on a filler and incompetent Terran faction that we never got to properly know and got utterly wiped out by the end of the game.


I hate it when sci-fi games have a human race without somehow acknowledging that they come from earth. I really enjoyed the UED story element.
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Posts: 129
Duke was an incompetent and a stooge. Mengsk didn't really need him, as he proved his resourcefulness by showing up in "Omega" with a brand-new fleet. Yet Kerrigan spared him again.


ok, now i know your full of crap and have no clue of anything that happened in brood war. Duke was the reason Mengsk started making progress in his campaign agains the Confederacy. Why else do you think Mengsk risked everything to save duke when his ship crash landed in the middle of zerg territory? And the fact that Mengsk was able to scrap up a new fleet means nothing, he simply scrapped everything he had left and everything the UED abandoned on Korhal, plus, we don't know if he didn't cut a deal with the kel Morians.

And Duke wasn't a stooge, your the stooge for even thinking that lol.

The conversation Kerrigan had with Raynor after Fenix's death doesn't prove she still has some sentiment for him, quite the opposite: she mocks him, ridiculing his reaction to Fenix's death and his ability to avenge him. She didn't let Raynor live, she just... failed to kill him somehow.


lmao, again wrong... she was trying to lighten the situation, and she LET RAYNOR LIVE, its clear as day. She let raynor live the same way she did on char when she was reborn and infested kerrigan... any fool can see that. After the conversation she even says "For the first time since my transformation, I am weary of the slaughter..." This was a result of raynor's words kicking in, he told her that she had no idea what she was becoming and she even tries to justify herself saying "you don't know what your talking abouit"

I mean try man, i know its hard for you, but its simple logic...

As for Fenix himself, he wasn't particularly dangerous: in fact, he already died once.

That means absolutely nothing... and unless you weren't an idiot you'd know that. JUST in fenix's second life as a dragoon he survived more battles than almost all the other characters in brood war. He survived fighting the entire conclave, the zerg broods, the dominion, the ued, the kel morians, and everything else up to kerrigan backstabbing him, and he was by no means no 'sit in the back and bark orders' type general either, he was always in the front lines. So saying he was not a threat is such an idiotic thing to say. Plus, if KERRIGAN says fenix and duke are a threat and that mengsk isn't its BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

That was the story that won awards, that was the story line that made starcraft the greatest RTS (maybe even computer game) ever made... what your insisting is that we severely dumb down a story line because you think more than ONE terran faction is too distracting and confusing rofl, I'm sorry that's just a little bit ridiculous...


... StarCraft won awards for its story? Never heard of that.


Greatest Games of All Time – GameSpot[10]
Game of the Year – AIAS[77]
Game of the Year – Computer Gaming World[77]
Game of the Year – PC PowerPlay[77]
RTS Game of the Year – PC Gamer[77]
Strategy Game of the Year – Games Domain[77]
35th Greatest Game of All Time – GameInformer Magazine
'Many critics also praised the strength of the story accompanying the game, with some reviewers being impressed by how well the story was folded into the gameplay.'
the awards starcraft won were based on STORY and gameplay... dum dum

The fact is, the UED indeed dumbed down the story... They didn't bring anything new to the story nor the lore: they were just a meaningless distraction.

LMFAO, that's YOUR opinion, which honestly is all you've been stating the entire time, opinions, NO FACTS, just your opinions... everyone else loves the concept of the UED and agrees its a great addition the the SC universe, but you, but that's cuz your opinion is crap.
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Posts: 129
During the last Blizzcon, Brian Kindregan stated that we would fight plenty of Hybrids in HotS.

lol. oh god, your really not getting it... they also said that in wings of liberty, there were 'lots of confrontations with hybrids'. Blizzard saying that fighting plenty of Hybrids is in no way any indication that they're the main antagonist or even one of the main antagonists. Again, we'll more likely see them appearing here and there and fight them, but in no way are they starting a full out invasion.

the UED is utterly absent in post-BW lore


You didn't read the books, and don't even try and tell me you did because you didn't. I don't even think you actually played BW because not ONE thing you actually said was right. Even the book SC ghost: Spectres mentions the UED resistance in almost every chapter and talks about frequent missions against them and the efforst the dominion is putting in to finally end their existence (which is obviously failing)

Seriously, when was the last time you played Brood War?

BAHAHAHA! Ok, listen dumdum, like i said before, everything you've stated was just your crap opinion, you have NO PROOF, in any of your statements while I have direct quotations. The fact that you haven't presented a single fact yet are so adamant about your claims and stupid opinions is extremely shocking.

Going out to call Duke and Fenix no threats at all right after I show a quote from Kerrigan PROVING that they are indeed threats makes you look like a moron, so please, don't even bother. Saying that the storyline in SC1 was not what won the game awards, also makes you look like a moron.

Last, getting every single thing you say wrong, and repeating your same dumba.s.s opinion like its fact after its proven wrong everytime, and then asking me if I've played BW recently, which i (obviously have but still wouldn't need to in order to prove you wrong) also, makes you look like a complete moron and tool.

I mean honestly, I'm not trying to insult you, i'm trying to help you, if your going to !@#$ out a turd and call if fact, do it else where, like maybe to someone in the lower IQ spectrum, you know, like someone at your same level, cuz it doesn't work here.

Do yourself a favour, play BW for your first time, make notes of all the dialogue especially on the mission 'True colors' and take some time to reflect and think about how stupid your making yourself look for saying such retarded comments.
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