StarCraft® II

4 Gating a Zerg

Posts: 176
I used to think that a 4 gate build was mainly for PvP.

That is, until i saw a match btw HuK and Moon at the DreamHack Summer 2011.

HuK didnt go for a FFE, like i thought most toss will do, but went for a 1 gate wall-in and transit to 4 gate.

Moon went for a spawning pool and extractor and early expand and lost to HuK's well executed 4 gate.

Ever since i saw that, i started 4 gating zergs.

Say wad u want abt PvZ, sometimes we need to think away from the standard FFE...
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,287
4gates in pro play have their place because it's a mind game. Lots of Zerg players don't even scout at the top because they think know how little of a chance of being 4gated there really is at that level. It's a good thing to do in a BoX style match, not good for being your standard build really.

That being said, plenty of builds out there work. Primarily because most Zerg players won't know what to do against someone that isn't either 4gating or FFE'ing. Practicing a PvZ 4gate won't get you all that far is all because the vast majority of them Plat+ can defend it in their sleep. They just make Spines and laugh at how far behind you are now since you're only on two gas geysers.

Still, if you have fun doing it keep doing it. More people on the ladder doing stuff like this potentially makes the Zerg players I face play more cautiously at least.
Reply Quote
Posts: 221
I practice my 4 gate in PvZ everytime i get tal darim alter. Fight mutas on that map is a joke because you can't blink to save your bases and cannons only go so far. So i practice 4gateing. I win more than i lose when i 4 gate on that map because if the overlord doesn't find you the first time, you can basically go unchecked as more zergs rarly drone scout in the first 5 minutes.
Reply Quote
Posts: 252
YOU may also use 5 gates zealot only push, spend the gas on sentry if you see roaches
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,353
I used to think that a 4 gate build was mainly for PvP.

That is, until i saw a match btw HuK and Moon at the DreamHack Summer 2011.

HuK didnt go for a FFE, like i thought most toss will do, but went for a 1 gate wall-in and transit to 4 gate.

Moon went for a spawning pool and extractor and early expand and lost to HuK's well executed 4 gate.

Ever since i saw that, i started 4 gating zergs.

Say wad u want abt PvZ, sometimes we need to think away from the standard FFE...


FFE is a super good build, maybe the best and safest opening, and easiest to expand behind but I feel like to many Protoss players think that is the only way to expand. You can go 1 gate FE , its the same as forge FE except you make zealots instead of cannons, then you can be aggressive with the zealots and hit a 3 gate pressure at 7 minutes, which is not as good as 4 gate but is as good if the zerg takes 3 bases, and you still have expansion. Its a hard build to execute well, takes allot of apm to fend off rearly pushes and all ins but its so strong and keeps zerg from making more workers then you.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,502
Really depends a lot on the metagame at your bracket.

Like if literally every Toss at your level is FFE, Zerg would basically assume an FFE is coming. So when they see something different, they have a much higher chance to react incorrectly. For all you know, they may have only played against a 4gate like twice in their life and have no idea what to do.

Even though FFE is the best overall opener for PvZ, it's also "too expected". I've had Zergs not even drone scout (no idea where the overlord went) and just blindly expect a FFE.

People need to mix up things, even if they aren't good builds, just to keep people in check. The problem is most people fall under the mentality of "I'll FFE every game, but someone else will do some 1base all-ins so the Zerg players won't play too greedy".

The thing is in tournament play, players are known enough that each player has a "style". If hes never done a 1base all-in in 20 games, he probably won't do a 1base all-in in the next one. The problem is players on ladder aren't well known like pro players, so the entire ladder pool's builds is basically like 1 persons. This is also why in some brackets like Silver you can literally run literally non functional anti-cheese openers and climb the ladder easily.
Reply Quote
Posts: 80
It can work at the pro level because they sometimes make assumptions and dont scout for certain things (as mentioned). Just be wary at the lower levels because players are more likely to scout early (due to that lack of comfort pros have) and the absolute biggest flaw 4-gating has is that it is super easy to scout. If a zerg scouts it before you're coming it's easy (and very cost efficient) to stop and speedlings can counter attack far too quickly to stop.

If the zerg doesnt scout then by all means...4-gate away!
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,525
5 gates better. :)
Reply Quote
Posts: 357
I think 1 base cheese vs zerg is going to be pretty hard now with fast overlords.

I'm just going to play it standard with 4gate robo sentry immortal into 3rd base.
Reply Quote
Posts: 691
I like doing a 3 gate robo rush instead of the 4gate against a hatching zerg. 1 immortal, 3 sentries and like 9 zealots. They cuss me out so much when I FF their units into their main and take out the natural with little to no defenses at it.
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,164

Like if literally every Toss at your level is FFE, Zerg would basically assume an FFE is coming. So when they see something different, they have a much higher chance to react incorrectly. For all you know, they may have only played against a 4gate like twice in their life and have no idea what to do.


Honestly it's not all that hard to scout a FFE. Most zergs with any kind of sense will have sent in a drone, zling scout or overlords (probably more than one) to see how protoss opens. And if you don't see FFE, the response is fairly easy in that you just stay on 2 base, get some roaches and build a few extra queens and a spore or two. 1 base protoss can be one of three things.

Zerg just has such easy responses to what protoss might do, he really doesn't have to think too hard, because seeing 1 base protoss immediately tells him it's some kind of all-in. And fortunately, a zerg can rather easily prepare for all of them with his map control. The instant the protoss leaves his ramp, the zerg should know about it. Even if he manages to get a proxy pylon set up somewhere, that's still not a huge deal if the zerg just pumps some roaches.
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,868
05/10/2012 08:08 AMPosted by TheFiend
Zerg just has such easy responses to what protoss might do, he really doesn't have to think too hard

And obviously it takes a team of the world's greatest minds to respond to stuff in game with protoss...
Edited by sTsTtzy on 5/10/2012 4:51 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,502
05/10/2012 08:08 AMPosted by TheFiend
Zerg just has such easy responses to what protoss might do, he really doesn't have to think too hard, because seeing 1 base protoss immediately tells him it's some kind of all-in. And fortunately, a zerg can rather easily prepare for all of them with his map control. The instant the protoss leaves his ramp, the zerg should know about it. Even if he manages to get a proxy pylon set up somewhere, that's still not a huge deal if the zerg just pumps some roaches.


Well, I had 21-3 PvZ over the past couple weeks vs Diamond/Masters Zerg on ladder when doing 1Base stuff. I don't really even need to hide anything either, they just fail to defend.
Reply Quote
Posts: 924
05/10/2012 05:24 PMPosted by NiteCore
Well, I had 21-3 PvZ over the past couple weeks vs Diamond/Masters Zerg on ladder when doing 1Base stuff. I don't really even need to hide anything either, they just fail to defend.


eggzackly.....This has been my point for months. Everyone is doing the FFE that when I DONT.....its usually easy wins vs most zergs in master/diamond for me because they are cornfused by what just happened.

If its in vogue...IE(FFE) I do something else. When FFE is replaced with something else I will probably FFE.
Reply Quote
Posts: 971
Er - doing a build just because it counters the metagame will only net you wins up until you reach a level on the ladder where players are actually competent enough to know how to adapt their build in light of alarming scouting information (ie. 1 gate, 1 gas, ~75% energy on nexus). If you want to truly know the glory of starcraft, learn how to execute a build that will take you to the late-game if need be - like FFE, for example.

Also, FYI, when SC2 first came out, 4gate was the #1 complaint from zergs (aside, maybe, from reapers), but they soon figured out how to overcome it.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]