StarCraft® II

Overlords should drop creep IMMEDIATELY

Posts: 639
Hi everyone,

Below is my original post along with a group of replies as when I first created this thread around 3 months ago. As it turns out, despite being told to use my brain among other things, Blizzard is making overlord creep drop a part of evolution chamber tech. That means you'l be able to drop creep before lair tech. If you read below that was in fact almost identical to what I proposed. Please comment on the possible early game strategies as a result of this change and try not to troll so you don't end up sounding stupid and plain wrong like some of the original ppl below.

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This is a balance thread focusing on early game versatility.

What if (this is how it starts) overlords could drop creep immediately and not only after the lair. Wouldn't this make things more even early game? Cannon rushes would be harder, but not overly difficult and would hence still play a part. Terran and protoss could still block enemy ramp but this too would be harder. Zerg would be able to spine crawler rush just like the other two races and they would also be able to hide tech more effectively for an increased strategy. Overlords drop creep anyways at Lair so this does not effect anything long game. But remember you still need to get the slow overlords into position and early game lings are effectively countered by marines and helions, while rines and stalkers can of course kill overlords. So I think this change will increase versatility but not create imbalance.

The key parameters of this post are: Zerg gets versatility early on but does not become OP.

Variations of this of course could be being able to upgrade to creep drop straight away for 50/50 or heaving to build a evolution chamber.

Guidelines:
There are a lot of tricks that could be used for this and I cant think of them all so if someone comes up with something good put it down. Be constructive.
Edited by RedGhost on 8/10/2012 5:34 AM PDT
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Posts: 988
I agree, Overlords should be able to drop creep in the Protoss natural, preventing Nexus first or Nexus before cannon/Stalker.

Overlords should also be able to creep the entrance to the Protoss natural where the Protoss would want to wall off, preventing them from stopping early ling run-bys.

Overlords should also be able to creep the top of a terran or toss ramp, preventing a wall in for the inevitable 6 pool.

There is no way this could go wrong.
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Posts: 23
Ummm no. Just no. With the new overlord speed they might be able to get to the opponents base before they drop down their natural expansion. This would be horrible for Protoss players because a unit that shoots air is not at the beginning of our tech tree. We would pretty much be forced to all in you.

Ridiculous post. Learn to use your brain
Edited by Dracobreaker on 5/13/2012 9:03 AM PDT
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Posts: 639
So protoss has to be able to go nexus first, and ONLY nexus first, without any interference. Cause heaving to put down 2 cannons instead of going nexus first is just not greedy enough. Zerg cant go expo first because of cannon rushing so they have to go pool first, but that is ok and fair.
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Posts: 639
@dracobreaker: refer previous post. I suppose cannons dont shoot up.
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Posts: 988
So protoss has to be able to go nexus first, and ONLY nexus first, without any interference. Cause heaving to put down 2 cannons instead of going nexus first is just not greedy enough. Zerg cant go expo first because of cannon rushing so they have to go pool first, but that is ok and fair.


Nexus first is already a huge gamble v Zerg, but whatever. You have yet to respond to the fact that creep spread would prevent wall-ins at the natural or even at the ramp, which is the far more significant concern.
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Posts: 639
I understand your concern.
If we take it from top.
Zerg sends their first overlord toward toss expansion (1v1 map only mind u) and the overlord should get there about the same time as first cannon finishes at while point the overlord cant spread creep while moving, or while being shot. Maybe it could be placed on hold but then zerg gets blocked at very start of the game and creep would only last 10sec during which maybe lings could run by but thats too specific and in depth and needs to be tested.
im more interested in flexibility in building placement and ability to impede cannon rushes a bit not to stop expo i'm sure someone could think of something as a compromise.
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Posts: 23
On small maps such a Metalopolis spawning close by air you can get to your opponents natural before a forge or a Nexus goes up. It's pretty much impossible to have a cannon up at that point. Try to get to a higher league than Gold and have a better understanding of other races before you post stupid stuff like this.
Edited by Dracobreaker on 5/14/2012 2:48 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,694
This is stupid.

Any map where zerg spawns close air positions they can run over with the new OL speed and drop creep stopping the protoss from expanding/walling.

Also, I love it how Red assumes that all toss no matter what drop that cannon and FFE.

So we can't 1gate FE anymore? becasue the stalker would be out like a full min after the OL has stopped the expansion.

and honestly that sac that OL and stop the expo from coming up for another 30s as the stalker tries to get the kill.

Maybe play for more then 1 season before you start to give balance suggestions?
But then that's what these forums are for mostly.
Edited by VanSCalucarD on 5/14/2012 3:31 PM PDT
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Posts: 286
Toss pissed at having FE easy mode taken away?

ROFL

Really a good idea, Zerg needs a buff of some sort and it need sto be their air more than anything.
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Posts: 639
First of all, if you read the original post, I made the argument that the ability to drop creep should be part of a 50/50 (for example) upgrade after spawning pool finish to prevent creep spread blocks on small maps.

Second of all, the zerg simply needs a little more versatility early game. Terrans have: wall off, marine scv all in, bunker 2rax rush, banshee rush. Protoss have 2proxy gate, ramp block, cannon rush. While the zerg have: .... 6 pool
If overlords could drop creep quicker (but not too quick ofcourse) then we could be a bit more versatile our selves with building placement, maybe spine rush or wall off. It's only fair since other races can do it.

Third of all, the fact that you even mildly tried to pull the 'experience rank' on me is a (lol x rofl)^2. If you like looking at my record you will see that I started playing again about 3-4 weeks ago at which point I went from bronze to gold 1 at which point I was not upgraded because the ladder is locked. And even if I was a bronze, 1 season noob only top 10 diamond above players could be doing the 'stop being noob then youl understand speech'.

Finally, if you are so experienced heaving playing oh so many seasons, than show it with an intelligent argument to which people will have no reply instead of heaving pms.
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Posts: 23
05/15/2012 02:43 AMPosted by RedGhost
. If you like looking at my record you will see that I started playing again about 3-4 weeks ago at which point I went from bronze to gold 1 at which point I was not upgraded because the ladder is locked.

Don't lie and say that you played before when you have no feats of strength (It gives you an achievement of your last season's rank)

Anyways back on topic. Zerg has more options than you think. They can proxy hatch, roach all in, 6 pool, 9 pool, Baneling bust, Roach bust, mass zergling all in.

If it was a 50/50 upgrade it would be pretty much useless. It would set the Zerg back that much farther from lair. And getting to lair is the doorway to the Zerg tech tree. (Same as Cyber Core or Factory)

Also you shouldn't be worried about walling off as a Zerg since you have the most mobile force in the game.
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Posts: 639
Thanks for intelligent reply (no sarcasm).
Good points but I think that your the opposite of me in that you think that zerg has more options than they actually do.
I've never tried proxy hatch unless you mean hatch in their natural and 6 pool only works against a fast expand does it not.

Not lying. I would have to be crazy talented to go from bronze to gold(1), effectively platinum, if I have never played sc2 multi before, think about it. I used to play SEA but recently downloaded the wrong client, NA, hence my previous seasons are not there. I played the first 4 then stopped.
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Posts: 73
OP is in gold league, that's all I needed to know to completely disregard his opinions on the game.
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Posts: 639
OP is in gold league, that's all I needed to know to completely disregard his opinions on the game.


Oh wow, low level masters! Put me in my place.

Typical that when someone 'just clears' the bar to move into the next division that they are so eager to 'stomp' everyone with the star craft hierarchy instead of providing an intelligent counter argument.

There are three types of people, with jobs/school/uni, that get to HIGH LEVEL OF SC.

Those that are: 1. talented/intelligent (few), 2. those that just clock in the required hours (many) and 3. those that are both talented/intelligent and clock in the hours (even fewer). Of course then there are those: 4. with no jobs/school/uni that just clock in the hours but are not intelligent (most).

Based on the content less, trolling response you provided, where you just said 'I'm good your bad',........ I'd say you belong in,...... NONE OF THE ABOVE because low level master IS NOT high level of star craft! LoL. On my other account I was high plat and beat diamond players all the time and you are pretty much a high diamond player on a slightly below average day.
Edited by RedGhost on 5/26/2012 2:01 AM PDT
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Posts: 517
In exchange for this buff, creep should recede faster after tumors are killed off. Same deal with creep after killing hatcheries. Takes way to long to go away imo
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Posts: 639
In exchange for this buff, creep should recede faster after tumors are killed off. Same deal with creep after killing hatcheries. Takes way to long to go away imo

Actually that's a good point.
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