The zerg's underlying balance issue

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Terran: to get siege tanks = barracks + factory + attachment = 3 stages of building
to get thors = barracks + factory + attachment + armory = 4 stages of building

Protoss: to get immortals = gateway + cybernetics core + robo facility = 3 stages
to get colossi = gateway + cybernetics core + robo facility + robo bay = 4 stages

Zerg:

to get ultralisks = spawining pool + hive upgrade + infestor pit + next hive upgrade + ultralisk den = 5 stages of building

to get brood lords = spawning pool + hive upgrade + infestor pit + next hive upgrade + spire + great spire upgrade = 6 stages of building

I would like to know some of you other zerg players thoughts on this and how zerg has no deathball with in the time frame that terran and protoss do. I feel like this is what makes zerg so hard since much more harrassment is necessary to catch the tier 3 unit tech up, if these units could be obtained earlier for zerg or take longer for protoss and terran it would make zerg much more managable for lower league players. I obviously understand that balancing of damage and such would have to be done but having colossi and immortals before 10 minutes is tough to deal with, it would be nice to have some solid units to work with as zerg. If any zerg players would like to help me understand how I should slow down my opponent or speed up my own tech or completely ignore the extreme prejudice versus zerg tier 3 units and spend my time and resources else where that would be much appreciated :) Looking forward to your comments
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05/15/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Knibbler
Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts


you do realize that warcraft is also blizzard's property, right?
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On topic bro, rage in your own thread
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05/15/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Knibbler
no zerg's underlying balance issue is that its a complete ripoff of the undead race from wc3. Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts. i hate companies who do this. Just like how valve ripped off the Chinese game "Final Combat" to create "Team Fortress 2" or as I like to call it "Team Ripoff 2". Both Valve and Blizzard are pathetic
What an idiot lol. blizz made both wc3 and sc2 and no there nothing alike AT ALL. lol
But on topic um the zergs tier 1 and tier to are really strong to kill tier 3 toss and terrans units. also ultras and broods are rediculas lol.
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How are tier one and two zerg strong? they have very hard counters and can easily be outmanouvered and outranged. Broods and ultras wouldn't be so ridiculous if they could be made at a similar time to thors siege tanks immortals and colossi because they are too crappy for how long they take to build.
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Posts: 26
05/15/2012 01:20 PMPosted by fingrknitter
I would like to know some of you other zerg players thoughts on this and how zerg has no deathball with in the time frame that terran and protoss do. I feel like this is what makes zerg so hard since much more harrassment is necessary to catch the tier 3 unit tech up, if these units could be obtained earlier for zerg or take longer for protoss and terran it would make zerg much more managable for lower league players. I obviously understand that balancing of damage and such would have to be done but having colossi and immortals before 10 minutes is tough to deal with, it would be nice to have some solid units to work with as zerg. If any zerg players would like to help me understand how I should slow down my opponent or speed up my own tech or completely ignore the extreme prejudice versus zerg tier 3 units and spend my time and resources else where that would be much appreciated :) Looking forward to your comments


There will never be a zerg deathball that compares to the other 2 races. With our ability to replace a downed deathball in a matter of seconds (given enough larvae and funds) it would make us undeniably OP.
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05/15/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Knibbler
no zerg's underlying balance issue is that its a complete ripoff of the undead race from wc3. Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts. i hate companies who do this.


Fail
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Posts: 552
zerg's underlying balance issue is that its a complete ripoff of the undead race from wc3. Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts. i hate companies who do this.


Dafuq? Do you have down syndrome?
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05/15/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Knibbler
no zerg's underlying balance issue is that its a complete ripoff of the undead race from wc3. Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts. i hate companies who do this. Just like how valve ripped off the Chinese game "Final Combat" to create "Team Fortress 2" or as I like to call it "Team Ripoff 2". Both Valve and Blizzard are pathetic.


LOL, the more you say this, the dummer you sound. First, Blizzard made both games, Second Zerg came first, Blizzard copied the undead race from the Zerg found in SC1 (which came first)
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Sounds like you're trying to play Zerg as if they were Protoss or Terran, we don't really have the same "deathball" style butwe also don't need it. They need to slowly mass these powerful units before they have an army that is strong enough to push out, if you make Zerg tier3 tech an equivalence to thor/colossus we'd be able to, due to the nature of our race mechanic, pump out a bunch at once and over run them...this would not be a good thing. As a trade off to later high tier tech we get the ability, once we have the economy to support it, to reinforce our ultras/broods at a very fast rate.

if these units could be obtained earlier for zerg or take longer for protoss and terran it would make zerg much more managable for lower league players


And throw balance completely out of whack for top level players which is an unacceptable tradeoff. As nice as it would be to casual and new players, you never ever balance a game based on the skill level of bad players, your game will be a disaster.
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Not only did the undead come out in wc3 after sc1 already had zerg in it, final combat was a rip off of tf2. The original TF came out in the 90's so your hopefully trolling, or have no clue what you are talking about lol.
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05/15/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Carnivore
I would like to know some of you other zerg players thoughts on this and how zerg has no deathball with in the time frame that terran and protoss do. I feel like this is what makes zerg so hard since much more harrassment is necessary to catch the tier 3 unit tech up, if these units could be obtained earlier for zerg or take longer for protoss and terran it would make zerg much more managable for lower league players. I obviously understand that balancing of damage and such would have to be done but having colossi and immortals before 10 minutes is tough to deal with, it would be nice to have some solid units to work with as zerg. If any zerg players would like to help me understand how I should slow down my opponent or speed up my own tech or completely ignore the extreme prejudice versus zerg tier 3 units and spend my time and resources else where that would be much appreciated :) Looking forward to your comments


There will never be a zerg deathball that compares to the other 2 races. With our ability to replace a downed deathball in a matter of seconds (given enough larvae and funds) it would make us undeniably OP.


this is very true however the key part of your statement is given the funds and larva well z already has to spend the most gas throughout the game and after countless replayes of z losing their whole army with only enough TIME and resource to make lings which do nothing in the late game it is a failed concept.

So either zerg units need to cost less gas OR they need to be more cost effectivle to do more damage while they are still alive because as it currently stands as being gas heavy and cost inneffective they are at a large disadvantage.
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Posts: 13
the point of zerg....
'Zerg Swarm'
not 'Zerg Deathball'

I never make ultras, rarely broods- even in SC1 never made gaurdians or devourer or ultra... point is to be everywhere and have a nonstop "swarm" of bodies and overrun
Edited by Draconis on 5/15/2012 10:02 PM PDT
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As a correction to my statement I feel that turtling opponents in 1v1 vs a zerg have a much easier time given the ability to much more quickly gain tier 3 units and "control" all of the below zerg units. In team games this is much less if at all present because the terran wall can be destroyed twice as fast with twice as many units in 2v2 for example. In team games I can make good use of what I do feel to be a zerg death ball: corruptors and broods and speedlings because the turtling terran or protoss can't make so much use out of a one base or two base camping.
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we are all about numbers not power, perfect example, zerglings, weak units on there own but they attack in packs and spawn in numbers of 2, zerg is about number, and the roach is the equivilent of the siege tank/marauder, it is heavily armored, and has a nice attack for ambush, you just get realy close to the siege tank then unburrow, and i will admit that it takes to long to get to a brood lord to a point where its almost a waste of time, but the whole point is also that you have your own small brood to back it up, lol
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Ok so I have played some more games (team games) and found that holding off a protoss who goes only gateway units because I deny his expansions is susceptible to the no matter how delayed corruptor brood lord composition. I still feel like this is almost a none existent place to be in a 1v1 because harrassment is much harder because a wall is much more effective
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05/15/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Knibbler
no zerg's underlying balance issue is that its a complete ripoff of the undead race from wc3. Blizzard owes the creators of warcraft royalties for ripping off their better developed rts. i hate companies who do this. Just like how valve ripped off the Chinese game "Final Combat" to create "Team Fortress 2" or as I like to call it "Team Ripoff 2". Both Valve and Blizzard are pathetic.

You aren't even trolling right, if you really want to play the rip-off card you have to go back to warhammer 40,000
space marines=terrans
tyranids=zerg
eldar=toss

and on topic, please don't make tier 3 zerg any faster to get to cause then they would have to be nerfed and I really like getting brood lords and winning like 90% of my games past that point
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