Topic New TvZ build that will crush face
Edited by taketobreak on 5/26/12 12:53 PM (PDT)
Im a high master toss / terran. High masters is in my achievements if you check im diamond now cuz i let my cousin play for 3months but gonna get back into the game now after college
Anyway. I am doin the math and lookin at possibilities and im 90% sure ive found something revolutionary.
Once i get to master league which should happen soon ill play toss and terran and hopefully get some good TvZ replays to provide
the build im thinking of is gas first, rax, factory starport RECTORED VIKINGS. the gas first allows you to make the factory /starport very fast
this build takes advantage of the power of terran being able to expand in their main while applying pressure
so you make tons of fast reactored vikings. at this stage in the game zerg has low queen count and you shred plenty of overlords then go back to your base and repair the vikings and come back and do the same thing. forcing a bunch of spores for the zerg or a ton of his overlords die
next, once you have like 14 vikings which doesnt take long you groundmode them and walk in scanning killing creep tumors and with propor lift micro you can kill a bunch of lings then fly away your vikings repair them and come back for more attacks
another good strategy is fly in with 14 vikings, ground mode, kill the quens, back off out of spore range, kill some lings then use lift micro to save your vikings and fly away and repair
so you do early pressure while expanding in your base and fly down your expansion when its safe
with proper scouting you can scout and react to any early aggression build the zerg does
Vikings on the ground actually do respectable DPS and arent too bad of combat units. One viking (2food) kills a roach (2food) on the ground however if your hiding behind bunkers and doing lots of harassment with the vikings and protecting them it can be very powerful
i understand vikings are twice the cost of roaches (150 minerals vs 75 minerals) however the strength of viking is being extremely harass capable and having lots of utility
next lategame you have like 50 ground mode vikings walking on the group supported by some tanks and hellions/marines/marauders. the vikings/marauders serve as a massive shield that protects marines/hellions from banelings. hellions/tanks vaporize all the lings and mass roach at this point is super weak to tank /marauder/viking fire
the counter to this will be heavy ultralisk play however my thought process is if you get the zerg to make ultras instead of broods you can abuse defensive planetaries and keep sniping zerg expansions with vikings and eventually overpower the ultralisks.
Expect me to provide replays in a week after i get back to master league and face some zergs
im 90% sure this strategy has promise i havnt completely figured out the best build but i will be working on it
i thought this idea was such a good one id post the general idea behind it for some terrans to experiment with while i also am going to be experimentig with this idea trying to make a build
not sure if serious
Pretty much. I'll believe it when I see it.
seem good in theory but commiting to vikking on 1 base is hard as you will lack of gaz, vikking also have a delay between landing and going on air.
zerg can put 2-3 spores crawler and put all his overlord there, sure you can land and go to kill them but if he send his ling to defend youll have to lift onto 3 spore crawler shooting you.
Also, the zerg can just overrun you with mass lings or roaches.
i dont know post some replays and a build so people can see it, i can kinda see where this could be good but i feel that if you get all-ind behind you killing overloads what will you have to defend a big zerg 2 base all in (well the zerg will be supply blocked petty bad) so plz post some replays for you doing this
Edited by SpineR on 5/26/12 6:08 PM (PDT)
Sounds like a good harassment for the earlier game, but as soon as infestors are out its too risky to make that many just to lose them all to one misstep. So I would stop producing them after like 8. Definitely not get 20+ lmao
Edited by taketobreak on 5/26/12 7:42 PM (PDT)
heres first game with it
the build can likely be improved i dont know the best way to open reactored vikings yet. but i think it probably can be made to be both economical and allow you to get to an endgame scenario with the zerg where you both have a large bank
problem is once you get there, what happens? in the linked replay i killed his 200food corrupter/broodlord/infestor army and died to the 15 ultralisks in the final battle
vikings get DESTROYED by ultralisks. i knew that would happen but didnt think it would be that bad of a destruction
and by the time you commit to having 40+ vikings like i had they're there to stay.
so the idea would be very powerful imo if ultralisks didnt exist. but ultras do exist, so obviously you cannot get 40+ vikings and expect to win
so im going back to the drawing board now. ultras are the main problem i think im going to face but how can you get enough anti-ultra units and still have the superior airforce to roll over corrupter/broodlord/infestor
i think the answer may lie in yamato and seeker missile. once you get to that lategame maxed + huge bank scenario you can make any army you want really and hopefully you trade well with the zerg
i think i should try getting less vikings, about 5 BC for yamato and maybe something like 10 ravens for seeker missile
in that game Gumiho defeated nestea by getting lots of seeker missile, huge amounts of mech, viking/hellion/thor i cant remember if he got BC's i dunno i guess im kinda copying gumihos composition however theres composition and build
right now im sure my build sucks. i will try to see if i can create a reactored viking opening that doesnt suck in terms of economy, it may be impossible, it may be possible, ill have to test things the only way it could work is if the harassment you do evens out the economic loss you have early
and other than the build is composition
what truly is the best composition to go for endgame against zerg? im sure most terrans are asking themselves that question and thats something i dont even know and im trying to experiment with
i probably also should have setup a bunch of defensive planetaries and sensor towers then harassed with the vikings and pulled back when sensor towers revealed he was coming or i dunno what the best ideas would be i gotta experiment
Don't be swayed by the sheep. You're strategy is viable and potent in my limited experience. I suggest a common fast expand with 1rax-reactor 1fac-tech 1star-tech. Bunker up on natural, 2nd rax for tech lab + infantry upgrades, get an early banshee and cloak for harass, then 2nd starport reactored and seek a balance of vikings and medis. Seiged tanks, stim+marines+medis, bunkers+turrets+PFs+sensors, harass with 1 group of banshee/raven by creepcrush or worker harass, and 1 group of vikings to harass supply and workers (with lift micro). This is incorporating a lot of the T arsenal, and it requires enduring slow, long, patient games.
the bump gave it away
It's kind of a ghetto phoenix harass? At least that's what it reminds me of, which is probably my favorite opener on Z as toss. But the big advantage they have is lifting units to their level and immune from damage. Vikings can drop but can easily get swarmed by lings.
I think the harass potential has merit? But obviously committing to them all game is easily counterable. They are not effective ground troops. Overlords are annoying to replace but its not going to all out cripple them like multi prong'd marine drops I would think? I guess it might be more survivable as you could lift micro? It just seems a heavy investment (gas wise) for not that much of a harass? Or you wouldn't get your money/time's worth out of it.
I do think a small fleet of vikings, similar to a muta flock or phoenix clump that flies around and annoys expo's has wonderful potential. Especially since Z usually relies on spores but vikings can just land :) You could then build up your killing blow safely knowing that you denied their macro.
If you want to lean into a heavy sky terran build, go with half the vikings and make banshees :) They would of shredded the ultras and you could then snipe their main tech buildings as a counterpunch. Supply blocking and tech shutdowns really frustrate Z in my experience.