Neglecting Zerg

Posts: 107
I just saw the http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343491 (HOTS update) and I am astonished about the neglectfulness of Blizzard to the zerg race. In case Blizzard doesn't know its Heart of the Swarm, not crown of the Protoss. Protoss and Terran have both gotten new units and such (Along with upgrades) and Zerg has ended up with just about the same unimaginable bad stuff (*no cursing in this post) that ends fantastic video games. I'm not viewing this as "breaking the game" but just no new freshness to the zerg race. It simply disappoints me. I know Blizzard has been working hard on this expansion but from way out here in the bitter world of cyber space this new update brings new wind to Protoss and Terran. From my stand view I would enjoy just a new taste in things. I understand your FIXING old units such as the hydralisk and ultras but you are fixing units for other races as well. Please help the swarm in multi player and not just the campaign. That would make me and hopefully many others happy gamers. Thank you for working on what COULD be the next best video game of 2012 - 2013 (depending on release date). Thank you for taking the time to read this, and may a blizzard employee see this and take it to heart ! #ZergLove
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Posts: 196
I more or less agree. There were a lot of things I wish would've happened.

Lurkers (why can't swarm hosts and lurkers live together to better the Zerg cause?)

I didn't see burrow move banelings in the new info release for HOTS

I didn't see multiple types of nydus worms

Why can't we keep the overseer? The lair timed scouting is nice

A better (less fragile) way to spread creep
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Posts: 194
Lurkers (why can't swarm hosts and lurkers live together to better the Zerg cause?)

I didn't see burrow move banelings in the new info release for HOTS

I didn't see multiple types of nydus worms

Why can't we keep the overseer? The lair timed scouting is nice

A better (less fragile) way to spread creep


I was looking forward to banelings having that burrow move ability too. even if it was quite slow, it would make baneling mines more potent and acutally worth it. They never talked much about the multiple nydus worms so i never got my hopes up for that. Seemed to radical an idea to me although it would be interesting. We still have the overseer which is nice, which can now "shoot" banelings to a range of 13... cool i guess so u can still scout a turtle without sacrificing the seer.

Why did they remove frenzy from ultras while keeping the thor the same i have no idea. Every terran will that sees a zerg respond with ultras for the tank line will now get the cannon upgrade, rendering the ultralisk completely useless. Also NP in ZVZ...common. Im glad to see that ultralisks still do + dmg to armored rather than light. and i guess being able to be concussed with mara's shell wont be too bad with blinding cloud chains... well see!

Locusts attacking air was a nice touch. GJ blizz
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Posts: 1,994
06/08/2012 04:04 PMPosted by KaiserKieran
I just saw the http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343491 (HOTS update) and I am astonished about the neglectfulness of Blizzard to the zerg race. In case Blizzard doesn't know its Heart of the Swarm, not crown of the Protoss. Protoss and Terran have both gotten new units and such (Along with upgrades) and Zerg has ended up with just about the same unimaginable bad stuff (*no cursing in this post) that ends fantastic video games. I'm not viewing this as "breaking the game" but just no new freshness to the zerg race. It simply disappoints me. I know Blizzard has been working hard on this expansion but from way out here in the bitter world of cyber space this new update brings new wind to Protoss and Terran. From my stand view I would enjoy just a new taste in things. I understand your FIXING old units such as the hydralisk and ultras but you are fixing units for other races as well. Please help the swarm in multi player and not just the campaign. That would make me and hopefully many others happy gamers. Thank you for working on what COULD be the next best video game of 2012 - 2013 (depending on release date). Thank you for taking the time to read this, and may a blizzard employee see this and take it to heart ! #ZergLove


I submit that you're simply whining because you can't take yes for an answer. Hydralisks got the speed boost, and still get to keep their all-in-one grade A killing power without the negative consequences of having it. You got a long range siege unit that can hit air targets, whereas before it couldn't. And you got your defiler back, only now it flies. I'd stay stop complaining and pat yourself on the back. You incessant whine-fest paid off in spades.
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Posts: 194
06/09/2012 05:16 AMPosted by Goyathla
You got a long range siege


the longer the range they must travel the less damage they can do... long range is not their strength
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Posts: 1,994
You got a long range siege unit that can hit air targets, whereas before it couldn't.


the longer the range they must travel the less damage they can do... long range is not their strength


No, their attack is also useful against air units with no loss of firepower. Also, they cost you nothing. No minerals, no gas, no energy, no supply. So enough with the whining about how you didn't get an unstoppable force.
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Posts: 613
06/12/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Goyathla


the longer the range they must travel the less damage they can do... long range is not their strength


No, their attack is also useful against air units with no loss of firepower. Also, they cost you nothing. No minerals, no gas, no energy, no supply. So enough with the whining about how you didn't get an unstoppable force.

What he's saying is that they have a travel time. At max range, most of their life has been wasted in transit, meaning they might only get a shot or two off before they die.

Think things through before making a strawman out of his argument.
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Posts: 12,752
the longer the range they must travel the less damage they can do... long range is not their strength

That depends how you want to use them.

Blizzard seems to still be working on the other two types of Nydus worms.
And Overseers have seen an improvement to the Changeling ablity. I wonder if contaminate will stay as is.
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Posts: 59
I really don't understand this obsession with assuming that an expansion has to favor a race in multiplayer based on the name. Heart of the Swarm's single player campaign is about the Zerg. The multiplayer is not going to be about improving them alone. It seems like some people expect the Zerg to get 50 new units while the Terrans and Protoss get an upgrade or two to existing units. Multiplayer is balanced and designed separately from whatever the single player focus is.

The Protoss aren't being favored in multiplayer for this expansion like some people seem to be crying about. Their unit total is only being increased by one for this expansion right now. The Tempest is replacing the Carrier which is actually still a big debate right now as to whether or not it's worth it since the Tempest is actually not doing anything the Carrier couldn't do arguably better with the exception of an absurd range to its attack. The Mothership Core is a stepping stone to the Mothership and is anchored to a Nexus until you upgrade it not to mention you can still only have one. You're forced to make a choice as to whether you want the capabilities of the Mothership or its Core. The Oracle is truthfully the only really big deal for the Protoss right now and is the only thing being added that isn't a replacement for something else or tied to and restricted by a currently existing unit.

The Terrans are in a bit of design limbo right now for this expansion. The only thing that has remained consistent for the Terrans is the new battle mode for the Hellion. The Widow Mine is essentially a different take on the Shredder that was cancelled. The Warhound seems to currently have an identity crisis as Blizzard just can't seem to figure out where they should fit. They were originally planned to replace the Thor as the mass produced ground mech with anti-air capacity. Now the Thor is mass produceable again and the Warhound now can't attack air units but has a secondary weapon to be more effective against mechanical ground units. This makes it pretty ineffective against the Zerg. So they have a new mode for an existing unit, a new map control unit to replace the failed one, a unit that just doesn't seem to be working, and a new ability for the Battlecruiser to make it move faster for a short time at the expense of energy.

Then we look at the Zerg who have a speed upgrade for the Hydralisk, a new gamechanging Burrow-Charge ability for the Ultralisk, a new caster air unit with the Viper that is essentially a flying Defiler from the first game, and the Swarm Host which is a ground-based siege unit (something the Zerg lacked) that can attack both ground and air targets. Those Locusts it spits out are durable and do plenty of damage. With an upgrade they can last quite a while which truthfully should not be a point of complaint considering that both the Siege Tank and Colossus require upgrades to be siege units themselves and neither of them can attack air. The way they are doing ground siege with this unit is actually very interesting and it keeps with the 'swarm' feel of the Zerg. We even have yet to see what Blizzard is doing with the Nydus Worms since they mentioned adding different versions of them.

Regardless of whether or not they do the Zerg are actually not on the short end of the stick anyways. Two of their units received potent additions and the two new units they're getting have been far more consistent in development with definite roles they fill compared to the current issues with the Terrans and Protoss.
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Posts: 1,288
that battle report was scripted, maybe not completely but they were definitely toying with each other just to show off the new units. Looked like zerg didn't want to get overseers to completely nullify the widow-mines, otherwise we would've definitely seen more of them.

the viper alone though has me excited for zerg, terran units are kinda meh, they are merely filling gaps for the factory, I don't see how there is big wow factor there and protoss had much needed changes coming to them. I think protoss got the best changes out of them all, makes me consider playing them for ONCE but I still like WoL zerg and they are getting 2 really cool unique units that are also pretty simple in design, which will make getting used to them quite easy.

The problem with terran/toss is that they have to design BRAND new ways of opening the game, because for toss they now have to consider the mothership core which requires gas, so that fundamentally changes any FFE build. Terran can open standard bio but if they open mech its a whole new ball game where as zerg, we play exactly the same until lair which is fine by me. I imagine when beta comes out, zerg will dominate because we can play exactly the same as we do in WoL but simply add in those support viper/SH's or go for upgraded hydras/ultras which we already know how to use.
Edited by emc on 6/13/2012 4:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 424
06/08/2012 04:04 PMPosted by KaiserKieran
I just saw the http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343491 (HOTS update) and I am astonished about the neglectfulness of Blizzard to the zerg race. In case Blizzard doesn't know its Heart of the Swarm, not crown of the Protoss. Protoss and Terran have both gotten new units and such (Along with upgrades) and Zerg has ended up with just about the same unimaginable bad stuff (*no cursing in this post) that ends fantastic video games. I'm not viewing this as "breaking the game" but just no new freshness to the zerg race. It simply disappoints me. I know Blizzard has been working hard on this expansion but from way out here in the bitter world of cyber space this new update brings new wind to Protoss and Terran. From my stand view I would enjoy just a new taste in things. I understand your FIXING old units such as the hydralisk and ultras but you are fixing units for other races as well. Please help the swarm in multi player and not just the campaign. That would make me and hopefully many others happy gamers. Thank you for working on what COULD be the next best video game of 2012 - 2013 (depending on release date). Thank you for taking the time to read this, and may a blizzard employee see this and take it to heart ! #ZergLove


The viper looks like it will fix a lot of zerg issues. If we can keep the viper for reasonable cost, I'm satisfied. I don't need a half-a-dozen new units if one new unit does the job.
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Posts: 1,994


No, their attack is also useful against air units with no loss of firepower. Also, they cost you nothing. No minerals, no gas, no energy, no supply. So enough with the whining about how you didn't get an unstoppable force.

What he's saying is that they have a travel time. At max range, most of their life has been wasted in transit, meaning they might only get a shot or two off before they die.

Think things through before making a strawman out of his argument.


It's you and he who were making strawman arguments. The locusts are free units, and their source is underground. Without detection that means free air and ground defense for a wide area. So the whining should stop. The zerg didn't lose their best two air units the way the protoss did.
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Posts: 12,752
The zerg didn't lose their best two air units the way the protoss did.

Two best air...you mean the Carrier? Zerg never had a T3 unit with anti-air so...meh.

Anyways, the Locusts will indeed lose out on dps from traveling a long range. They'll also lose out on it by dying to enemy attacks. I'm not concerned. 25 seconds of Locust life gives them incredible range, even if they are as slow as a High Templar. And dying to enemy attacks is part of the job description.
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Posts: 613

What he's saying is that they have a travel time. At max range, most of their life has been wasted in transit, meaning they might only get a shot or two off before they die.

Think things through before making a strawman out of his argument.


It's you and he who were making strawman arguments. The locusts are free units, and their source is underground. Without detection that means free air and ground defense for a wide area. So the whining should stop. The zerg didn't lose their best two air units the way the protoss did.

Wasn't I on your ignored list? You clearly suck at lying.

Secondly, no, the point he made is 100% accurate, there's no denying that. If the Locusts have a lifespan of fifteen seconds, and they spend fourteen seconds just getting to their target, they are clearly going to do less damage than if they need only travel for three seconds. Again, common sense: Use it.
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Posts: 25
You do realize the video showing all the new stuff in hots is half for protoss then a 1 quarter for terran and zerg. pfft, i think blizzard is playing favorites
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Posts: 1,057
Just because its a zerg expansion doesn't mean that zerg just gets to be overpowered and get all the cool things. The expansion names are basically based on campaign not multiplayer.

The multiplayer is about balance not "oh its time for zerg to win all the time"
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Posts: 38
blizzard isn't picking favorites all there saying is that toss
gets the most noted changes although i'm not sure the tempest was really necessary
as anti-air seeing as phenex's are 100/100
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Posts: 971
You guys are nuts. Zerg units look pretty damn fantastic.
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Posts: 1,738
I agree with the above three. Guys, PLZ stop whining over the fact they had less units given. BW DID THE SAME THING AND IT HAD A ZERG THEME. SO STOP WHINING ABOUT HOTS FOLLOWING ITS PATTERN.
BW:
- Lurker
- Devourer
SC2/HOTS:
- Swarm host
- Viper

Oh look at that. The Zerg still get a lot of other features in HotS anyway.
Such as:
- Overseer still with us; Siege-range changeling spawn
- Hydralisk finally gets the Speed Upgrade from the older games = KILLING MACHINES
- New Nydus Worm Forms(At least two specialist worms; not shown at MLG since models weren't ready)
- Ultralisk Burrow Charge
- New Queen Model
- New Creep Tumor Animation
So I see no problem with having 2 units. I find the Warhound's role too similar to Goliath/Thor concepts and its model borders on just plain weird(though I applaud Blizz for making it less like a Weaponized SCV). And I think the Mothership's Mass Recall and Oracle's Cloaking Field a bit of tweaking if they are to balance. Besides, still no Beta and the
current features still interest me, despite all this tension.

The Point is -> IT'S NOT OVER YET!
Edited by UltraNoob on 6/25/2012 6:24 PM PDT
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Posts: 13
Yeah, I love zerg and all, but baneling burrow move NEVER had a chance of staying in. Ridiculously OP.
I am just super excited that by fixing hydra and ultra they effectively gave us 2 more units since we can actually use them now. We also get several different end game strategies now:
-infestor/broodlord/corruptor (the only one before)
-Ultra/ling/infestor (new)
-viper/hydra/broodlord (new)
-viper/ultra/corruptor (new)
I think that these are going to be a lot of fun and makes the game REALLY open up for zerg even though we may not have gotten more actually brand new units.
Meanwhile, the new strategies for terran and protoss are going to be how to deal with not being able to rely upon colossi deathballs and siege tanks. Their new units are just a way to give them these options.
All in all, I think zerg play opened up HUGELY while terran and protoss' was just changed in order to deal with this new play.
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