StarCraft® II

[PvZ Build] 2-base Mothership Expand

Have you ever lost with this build?
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12/06/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Derpy
Have you ever lost with this build?


Lol, I would assume that yes, it is possible to lose with this build, otherwise, this would be the to go build for all pros. XD
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12/06/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Derpy
Have you ever lost with this build?


I think we all have due to mistakes and stuff. I have, by my estimation, around an 80% winrate with this build.
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12/06/2012 08:22 PMPosted by EthanKairos
Have you ever lost with this build?


I think we all have due to mistakes and stuff. I have, by my estimation, around an 80% winrate with this build.

How did you lose? Was it your mistakes or the zergs
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12/06/2012 08:39 PMPosted by Derpy


I think we all have due to mistakes and stuff. I have, by my estimation, around an 80% winrate with this build.

How did you lose? Was it your mistakes or the zergs


I don't see how someone is supposed to lose if it's his opponent that made mistakes... but to answer your question, they were mine.
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Hey guys, have any of you ever tried mixing Hallucination in with this build? The build order says to get at least one Sentry anyway, and Hallucination certainly helps for scouting in the early to mid game. 100 gas is going to be spent on a Phoenix anyway, so I was thinking, why not, right?

Sidewinder? Your thoughts?
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Hey guys, have any of you ever tried mixing Hallucination in with this build? The build order says to get at least one Sentry anyway, and Hallucination certainly helps for scouting in the early to mid game. 100 gas is going to be spent on a Phoenix anyway, so I was thinking, why not, right?

Sidewinder? Your thoughts?


Getting Hallucination will delay any upgrades you have not gotten, like Warp Gates. Unless you spend another 150 Minerals on a Cyber Core, I would not suggest it. Also, the Phoenix scouts early on to help you decide whether to prepare for Mutas, Mass Roaches, or Infestors. If you scout later with a Hallucination, you may find yourself prepared for Mass Roach rather than Mutas, costing you the game. For safety purposes, spend that extra 50 minerals on the Phoenix.
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Hey guys, have any of you ever tried mixing Hallucination in with this build? The build order says to get at least one Sentry anyway, and Hallucination certainly helps for scouting in the early to mid game. 100 gas is going to be spent on a Phoenix anyway, so I was thinking, why not, right?

Sidewinder? Your thoughts?


It's not a bad idea. The Phoenix really doesn't interrupt anything, and can be used as a scout throughout the game. I prefer the Phoenix, but Hallucination wouldn't hurt.
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I just wanted to say omg some guy called "flying" from CJ entus in pro-league is using a mothership expand. So glad to see this at the pro level. lets see if it works!
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Well, flying loses. Banelings in vortex, mass ling reinforcements. Storm was clearly missing. Definitely check out this game if you are interested in how this build looks when used by a pro.
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12/08/2012 08:02 PMPosted by Pesto
I just wanted to say omg some guy called "flying" from CJ entus in pro-league is using a mothership expand. So glad to see this at the pro level. lets see if it works!


Oooh. Got a link?
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Pretty sure this is it. http://www.twitch.tv/sc2proleague/b/346510332

This VOD is nothing alike the build that I use. He goes for every tech path at once while trying to expand. He should have died much earlier. The only thing in common is the Mothership to cloak the 3rd base.
Edited by Sidewinder on 12/8/2012 10:23 PM PST
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I agree the build is not at all the same. He would have benefited from knowing the sidewinder style!

I just thought it was interesting to see the principle of a cloaked 3rd base/fast mothership used in the korean scene. PvZ has looked exactly the same for so long now at the pro level (yes, there are a few rare exceptions); its exciting to see kespa/proleague players willing to try different things.
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1) Would it be better to get Shield Upgrades over Armor after getting Weapons?
2) Is a 2nd Cyber Core a good investment for a better timing on Warp Gate and Air Armor, or is it a waste of 150 minerals?
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12/26/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Guilt
1) Would it be better to get Shield Upgrades over Armor after getting Weapons?


The shield upgrades benefit Archons more than anything else, but since they benefit all Protoss units, they add up better towards a Carrier transition. Of course, you should still get air armor if you go that route.
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12/26/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Guilt
2) Is a 2nd Cyber Core a good investment for a better timing on Warp Gate and Air Armor, or is it a waste of 150 minerals?


If you're doing it specifically for a timing, as long as you can make it work without weakening your timing then there's no reason not too. If you find that the 150 minerals spent that far in advance will end up weakening your timing, I'd probably hold off on getting your second cyber until you've got a third base for the gas.
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I've found that with the current end-game unit comp for this build, a mass of hydralisks can in face be a huge threat in HotS. the biggest thing that I've found is that the hydras can just get maxed up before you have a maxed army, which can be very very hard to hold off. I think in HotS a couple of colossi need to be mixed in if the enemy goes hydra instead of air.
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chargelot/archon/storm i tihnk would be much better, and be easier to et with this build.

I'm not an expert with this build, but i do have much experience with my colossi getting owned by viper/hydra.

So I would not recommend adding colossi in as those can just be abducted and one shot-killed.

At least in my experience.
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I'm a zerg and this is awsome =o I hope a zerg version of sidewinder shows up=o

One thing though, as a zerg it is very easy to tell if its a skytoss [2 cannons, certain amount of gas ratio with units]. The correct response as zerg is infestor neural rush, Literraly neural mothership and win with vortex and infested terrans. If you can read that the toss is playing air you can literally win everytime.

Good creep spread with mass spore hydra/nydus also works very well too.
But, Ive played against this before and can vouch its extremely powerful if you don't read that its airtoss or fast mothership right away.
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I'm a zerg and this is awsome =o I hope a zerg version of sidewinder shows up=o

One thing though, as a zerg it is very easy to tell if its a skytoss [2 cannons, certain amount of gas ratio with units]. The correct response as zerg is infestor neural rush, Literraly neural mothership and win with vortex and infested terrans. If you can read that the toss is playing air you can literally win everytime.

Good creep spread with mass spore hydra/nydus also works very well too.
But, Ive played against this before and can vouch its extremely powerful if you don't read that its airtoss or fast mothership right away.


It's great to see a productive player from the other races! Of course, this strategy isn't bulletproof. In fact, I believe Sidewinder created this opening since it's more fun and diverse than the Sentry/Immortal All-in that has been pissing off many Zergs. This is the most well-thought out strategic response I've seen Zerg players try, and this is the most solid, compared to Hydras or Roach busts.
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