[PvZ Build] 2-base Mothership Expand

Posts: 319
You could build some gates on your third "closing" its front entrance, along with the cannons, so that any runby is less effective. (as lings will have to run all the way around first)

You can do this in some maps like Ohana.
Edited by Aldrighi on 7/9/2012 5:04 AM PDT
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Posts: 852
07/09/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Aldrighi
You could build some gates on your third "closing" its front entrance, along with the cannons, so that any runby is less effective. (as lings will have to run all the way around first)


he around throw down what? 12-14 gates in his main, no need for more.
Instead of gates for wall, more cannons for dps.
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Posts: 319
he around throw down what? 12-14 gates in his main, no need for more.
Instead of gates for wall, more cannons for dps.


There is no such thing as too many gates...

Besides, you only need 2-3 to wall it off (along with the crapton of cannons) and be that much safer vs ling runby.
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Posts: 852
There is no such thing as too many gates...

Besides, you only need 2-3 to wall it off (along with the crapton of cannons) and be that much safer vs ling runby.
It of 3 bases as we pump out massive of immorals? Yes that way too many gates.

edit:with lings run by, unless it 200/200 supply were lings
ain't no !@#$ can't break it because of the # of cannons and the mothership.
Edited by ACIDCYCLONE on 7/9/2012 2:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 319
It of 3 bases as we pump out massive of immorals? Yes that way too many gates.

edit:with lings run by, unless it 200/200 supply were lings
ain't no !@#$ can't break it because of the # of cannons and the mothership.


You can see in one specific replay that a ling runby did a LOT of damage that could have been avoided if he had 2-3 gates on the third.

And when you're on 3 bases you can get enough money for 2-3 extra zealots in seconds.

edit: you dont really need THAT many immortals, really. Around 6 do serious damage already, especially with zealots tanking...
Edited by Aldrighi on 7/9/2012 3:28 PM PDT
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With the immortals, is it a better idea to only build one robo instead of 2? It seems like a bit of a waste of production if we only need 4-6 immortals.
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07/10/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Wingblade
With the immortals, is it a better idea to only build one robo instead of 2? It seems like a bit of a waste of production if we only need 4-6 immortals.


You'll also want at least one observer and at least one warp prism available for when you attack. If you get 2, you max out off the 4-5 production cycles it takes during the last production cycle. With one you'll be waiting for a while.

I guess if you drop the first one earlier then it's all good. 2 feels more natural to me, for whatever reason. But needing 2 Warp Prisms, 4-6 Immortals and 1-2 Observers on 1 Robo is a lot of production time.

Plus, if you need to re-supply, you're already on 3+ bases anyway...

Up to you, I suppose.
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Posts: 319
2 robos is better imo because its faster to remake your army once you traded with the zerg.

It doesnt happen that often tho, most of the times you just roll over him. But immortals do SO much damage vs roaches and infestors that if you lose them you wanna have more ASAP.

The first zerg i used this build on got crushed in the first big fight and remaxed on lings/roaches (with leftover infestors) and just died lol.

This other time i lost all my ground army and mothership, but had so many void rays that i just made chargelots/immortals and a few archons to kill him.
Edited by Aldrighi on 7/10/2012 4:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,647
This has an awesome build that has made me discover the wonders of skytoss (note that I'm only Silver league though). I had one unimportant detail question - when it says "When you are mining from the 3rd base, research Charge and continue to research attack upgrades until you are at +3. " Does that mean ground attack, air attack, or both?
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Posts: 10,770
07/11/2012 05:54 PMPosted by Caelum
This has an awesome build that has made me discover the wonders of skytoss (note that I'm only Silver league though). I had one unimportant detail question - when it says "When you are mining from the 3rd base, research Charge and continue to research attack upgrades until you are at +3. " Does that mean ground attack, air attack, or both?


You really don't need to dump that much gas into air attack upgrades unless you're actually planning a Carrier switch later.

Vs Zerg, you always want to rush ground attack upgrades so you can end battles quickly.
Edited by Sidewinder on 7/11/2012 6:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 319
Ok, so i have played like 20 games vs zerg with this build and i have to say that its amazing.

I only lost once to a zerg who nydus my main and killed the 2 pylons powering the stargates RIGHT BEFORE a void ray came out... (i didnt see the nydus)

I hope its this good on masters too. (Seriously, no matter what army the zerg has, it gets completely destroyed without even killing half the army). I have played against mass infestor/roach, mass corruptors, mass spines + army, roach/hydra/infestor, (even mutas) all fully upgraded and its so fun to watch it all die lol.

Thanks Sidewinter, made this game much more fun to play.

edit: Here is the replay of one the matches.

http://drop.sc/221220

I made a crapton of mistakes: forgetting core (lol), losing my mothership for free, cancelling my gates by accident, etc.

I know ppl will blame the zerg, but so far it was this easy for every single one that i played.
Edited by Aldrighi on 7/13/2012 9:20 AM PDT
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Posts: 750
I'm having trouble against the 3-base Muta situation, because I have trouble scouting it on time for me to get my Voids in position to snipe the Spire. Would Hallucinated Phoenixes be a good idea for some better mid-game scouting?
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Posts: 10,770
07/14/2012 08:38 AMPosted by EthanKairos
I'm having trouble against the 3-base Muta situation, because I have trouble scouting it on time for me to get my Voids in position to snipe the Spire. Would Hallucinated Phoenixes be a good idea for some better mid-game scouting?


That would require 200 gas just for a hallucination, when you can produce 1 Phoenix for 100 gas and fly in there to see what is going on. If you fly to his base and you can't tell what he's doing (because he isn't making Roaches), it's probably a good idea to queue up a Phoenix, send your Void Rays home and scout what he's doing. If you see a Spire, keep making Phoenix.
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07/14/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Sidewinder
That would require 200 gas just for a hallucination, when you can produce 1 Phoenix for 100 gas and fly in there to see what is going on.


I suppose it wouldn't hurt the build order too much to produce this initial Phoenix, yes?
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07/14/2012 01:01 PMPosted by EthanKairos
That would require 200 gas just for a hallucination, when you can produce 1 Phoenix for 100 gas and fly in there to see what is going on.


I suppose it wouldn't hurt the build order too much to produce this initial Phoenix, yes?


You want every second invested into getting that pressure started as soon as possible. You can go 4 Void Rays, then 1 Phoenix, then resume Void Rays/Phoenix depending on what you see.
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Thanks for this, Sidewinder. Didn't get to play many Zergs, but had a blast with this so far. And thanks for the replays!
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So far, the worst part of this build is dealing with Zerg whining.
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Posts: 750
Okay, having trouble with Baneling tech switches since they absolutely melt Zealots and chew through Archon shields pretty well. Should I be Vortexing the Banelings without throwing my Archons in there?
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^^ Archons are actually cost efficient against banelings, although you don't want to throw them into a toilet with them. Zealots... only if they're split. In this situation, I think your best bet is storm. If you've made your archons out of HTs, you should be just fine versus banelings if you research storm and have decent control.
Edited by BlackAdder on 7/16/2012 12:15 PM PDT
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07/16/2012 11:44 AMPosted by EthanKairos
Okay, having trouble with Baneling tech switches since they absolutely melt Zealots and chew through Archon shields pretty well. Should I be Vortexing the Banelings without throwing my Archons in there?


Just run your Zealots away if you can. Baneling vs Archon is one of the least-efficient trades in the game.
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