StarCraft® II

Apparently 6-Pool is STANDARD. (PvZ)

Posts: 1,183
I just finished a game against this Zerg player. I am scratching my head as to why it's so easy for a Zerg to 6-pool and transition into a normal game.

He warded off my initial attack thereafter, but I killed a few queens and drones. He somehow had roaches for that engagement...

Then I tried to kill him with your standard deathball, he had broodlords... somehow afforded broodlords. Oh wait I know how... cause his macro is bad and he had a ton of banked money.

The endgame stats show that I have an income of 1636 to 1614 and my unspent resources was 1301 to his 2911! Where does a Zerg get off with not spending any of his money and still BARELY lost? Imagine if he just spent a bit more cash...

So how is it that by doing a 6-pool a Zerg player can get into this 35 minute game?

Yes I am QQing, had to let out my frustrations. I won, but that game should have been SO much quicker than 35 minutes.

Oh and here's a replay:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=266723

I won the game guys, quit pointing out that you think "I lost cause I am a worse player than him."
Edited by Light on 7/7/2012 5:07 PM PDT
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Posts: 4,022
I just finished a game against this Zerg player. I am scratching my head as to why it's so easy for a Zerg to 6-pool and transition into a normal game.

He warded off my initial attack thereafter, but I killed a few queens and drones. He somehow had roaches for that engagement...

Then I tried to kill him with your standard deathball, he had broodlords... somehow afforded broodlords. Oh wait I know how... cause his macro is bad and he had a ton of banked money.

The endgame stats show that I have an income of 1636 to 1614 and my unspent resources was 1301 to his 2911! Where does a Zerg get off with not spending any of his money and still BARELY lost? Imagine if he just spent a bit more cash...

So how is it that by doing a 6-pool a Zerg player can get into this 35 minute game?

Yes I am QQing, had to let out my frustrations. I won, but that game should have been SO much quicker than 35 minutes.

Oh and here's a replay:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=266723


did you attempt to phoenix harass overlords?
Mothership recall or vor?
storm ?

:3!
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Posts: 1,183
I just finished a game against this Zerg player. I am scratching my head as to why it's so easy for a Zerg to 6-pool and transition into a normal game.

He warded off my initial attack thereafter, but I killed a few queens and drones. He somehow had roaches for that engagement...

Then I tried to kill him with your standard deathball, he had broodlords... somehow afforded broodlords. Oh wait I know how... cause his macro is bad and he had a ton of banked money.

The endgame stats show that I have an income of 1636 to 1614 and my unspent resources was 1301 to his 2911! Where does a Zerg get off with not spending any of his money and still BARELY lost? Imagine if he just spent a bit more cash...

So how is it that by doing a 6-pool a Zerg player can get into this 35 minute game?

Yes I am QQing, had to let out my frustrations. I won, but that game should have been SO much quicker than 35 minutes.

Oh and here's a replay:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=266723


did you attempt to phoenix harass overlords?
Mothership recall or vor?
storm ?

:3!


I went for a straight up macro game, I did do a little Vray harass in the lategame, haha. It's that I never felt like I could get harass in because he started with mutalisk.
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Posts: 275
@Zoe

Do you even understand the point of this thread?
He's asking why is it so easy for a Zerg player that goes 6pool to transition back into a macro game.
(aren't cheese suppose to have a major drawback?)
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Posts: 1,803
I just finished a game against this Zerg player. I am scratching my head as to why it's so easy for a Zerg to 6-pool and transition into a normal game.

He warded off my initial attack thereafter, but I killed a few queens and drones. He somehow had roaches for that engagement...

Then I tried to kill him with your standard deathball, he had broodlords... somehow afforded broodlords. Oh wait I know how... cause his macro is bad and he had a ton of banked money.

The endgame stats show that I have an income of 1636 to 1614 and my unspent resources was 1301 to his 2911! Where does a Zerg get off with not spending any of his money and still BARELY lost? Imagine if he just spent a bit more cash...

So how is it that by doing a 6-pool a Zerg player can get into this 35 minute game?

Yes I am QQing, had to let out my frustrations. I won, but that game should have been SO much quicker than 35 minutes.

Oh and here's a replay:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=266723


It's a meta shift. They 6-pool your FFE, you lose resources and development time. At this point, you should just start expecting a 6-pool and preemptively act to prevent it while taking minimal damage. It only works because they're guaranteed 250 resources of damage without any damage taken.

Or, if you want to stick with FFE, start getting earlier forges.
Edited by Metherlance on 7/7/2012 1:29 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,183
@Zoe

Do you even understand the point of this thread?
He's asking why is it so easy for a Zerg player that goes 6pool to transition back into a macro game.
(aren't cheese suppose to have a major drawback?)


That's exactly it.

Oh and what happens if they just hatch first? Now I'd be really screwed.
Edited by Light on 7/7/2012 1:30 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,803
@Zoe

Do you even understand the point of this thread?
He's asking why is it so easy for a Zerg player that goes 6pool to transition back into a macro game.
(aren't cheese suppose to have a major drawback?)


That's exactly it.

Oh and what happens if they just hatch first? Now I'd be really screwed.


If they hatch first? Send like two zealots, win the game.
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Posts: 4,022
@Zoe

Do you even understand the point of this thread?
He's asking why is it so easy for a Zerg player that goes 6pool to transition back into a macro game.
(aren't cheese suppose to have a major drawback?)


wait, Zerg have drawbacks?? LOL

Depends how fast he 6pooled, he attack u @ 3mins or ?

Zerg 6pool problems or issues please view this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskNTCzdLNE
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Posts: 1,183


That's exactly it.

Oh and what happens if they just hatch first? Now I'd be really screwed.


If they hatch first? Send like two zealots, win the game.


So you want me to start gateway. I have tried something like that, but they usually just try to make some spines while holding your zealots off with lings. I play Masters, I know whats up haha.

@Zoe

Do you even understand the point of this thread?
He's asking why is it so easy for a Zerg player that goes 6pool to transition back into a macro game.
(aren't cheese suppose to have a major drawback?)


wait, Zerg have drawbacks?? LOL

Depends how fast he 6pooled, he attack u @ 3mins or ?

Zerg 6pool problems or issues please view this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lskNTCzdLNE


I know exactly how to hold a 6-pool off as demonstrated in the replay. And it's the by-the-book definition of a 6-pool so as fast as possible.
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Posts: 1,183
07/07/2012 01:34 AMPosted by RootKit
That Zergie probably just had really good macro and inject timings. I know it seems OP but you might have gotten outplayed.


Good macro... are you joking? I had BETTER income and LESS unspent resources. PLUS I beat him.
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Posts: 1,183
07/07/2012 01:42 AMPosted by RootKit
Good macro... are you joking? I had BETTER income and LESS unspent resources. PLUS I beat him.


Then why are you whining?? You won lol. You should giggle at the silly Zergs for 6 poolin


I am "Whining" because that 6-Pool had no such economic drawbacks and if he actually spent his 6000+ banked resources, he could've done so much better - probably beating me.
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Posts: 7,653
6 pool is basically irrecoverably all-in if you get a cannon up at your natural and main, or if you get a wall up at your natural before they get in.

Otherwise, yeah, they kill 250 minerals worth of buildings and deny your natural for a little while. That's quite significant damage.
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Posts: 1,183
6 pool is basically irrecoverably all-in if you get a cannon up at your natural and main, or if you get a wall up at your natural before they get in.

Otherwise, yeah, they kill 250 minerals worth of buildings and deny your natural for a little while. That's quite significant damage.


Unless all his Zerglings died, and he can't spend that larvae on drones.
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Posts: 8,097
If you're gonna forge fast expand, they can easily 6 pool you and force you to waste money on pylons and cannons in the main. Just give gateway expanding a try.
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Posts: 308
07/07/2012 02:07 AMPosted by PotatoLiSK
Just give gateway expanding a try.


NO! like naniwa said "FFE or die trying"

6 pool was std meta-game in korea for a while the pylon and cannon in main puts you slightly ahead.

However if you have good probe micro and have not started the forge (ie beacuse your doing a nexi first which I do every pvz) you can 2 gate in your base and fend off the lings with probes which puts the zerg severely behind assuming you probe micro against the lings well enough
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Posts: 8,097
07/07/2012 02:40 AMPosted by TheCube
Just give gateway expanding a try.


NO! like naniwa said "FFE or die trying"

6 pool was std meta-game in korea for a while the pylon and cannon in main puts you slightly ahead.

However if you have good probe micro and have not started the forge (ie beacuse your doing a nexi first which I do every pvz) you can 2 gate in your base and fend off the lings with probes which puts the zerg severely behind assuming you probe micro against the lings well enough


You know how much time zerg gets to macro up when you Forge Fast expand? A lot.
You know how much time zerg gets to macro up whe you 1 gate expand? Not as much.

If zerg opened gasless, then you'll be safe for about 3 minutes before they can do anything because they have to either tech to roaches quickly (roaches cost gas and roach warren take a while to make) or get metabolic boost (which takes a little less than 2 minutes to research). By the time zerg starts attacking you (if they do), you should have at least one sentry out
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Posts: 3,085
Yep zerg "cheese" isn't really cheese. More reasons why zerg are overpowered and should be looked at under a microscope to determine what needs to be nerfed.
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Posts: 1,803
07/07/2012 03:18 AMPosted by BabelFish
Yep zerg "cheese" isn't really cheese. More reasons why zerg are overpowered and should be looked at under a microscope to determine what needs to be nerfed.


The only reason 6-pooling protoss allows for the zerg to transition into a non-allin is because currently basically every protoss FFEs, and that almost guarantees the zerg a pylon and forge kill, as well as a huge setback in the protoss' teching.
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