[Showcase]A Clash of Kings (Continued Continued)

Posts: 34
That neck debuff has seriously got to go. And not just "make it so it doesn't affect Stark", but be gone fully. The poor turret placement at the Twins makes it so that Tully will always be affected by the debuff, and for some reason, I appear to be the only Tully who bothers clearing out the inner four turrets as soon as game starts. I've had a Stark/Arryn war break out solely because the turrets prevented Stark units from heading south, so they went east and mished into Arryn forces north of the Trident, east of Maidenpool.

Everything else is pretty much secondary to that, I think. The perma-cloaked Crannogmen inside it should be enough, since if you've got a military force that a pack of perma-cloaked Crannogmen can't handle by being annoying (which is what they were in the book), then you've got problems far more serious than just "if only the terrain caused annoyingly minor damage over time" could fix.
Posts: 33
I like the idea of the damage and slow for Stark's enemies at the neck. If you know lore well or bother to look it up, the neck is a large swamp area filled quicksand under the water and only the cannogmen know how to navigate it properly. An army would be considerably slowed attempting to find safe paths through the swamps to mainly avoiding the quicksand, more so with crannogmen hiding in the swamps engaging in guerrilla warfare and using poisoned darts (which is a lot worse than just 'annoying' an army, it'd be called harrying). I don't know about anyone else, but I think it'd be insane to just charge an army through the Neck and except it to come out fine on the other side.
Edited by Skoton on 11/20/2012 9:09 PM PST
Posts: 40
I don't think anyone is questioning the lore but rather how well it functions as currently implemented. But if you're able to point out a chapter in the stories where Lord Frey had to destroy some of his defenses to avoid contact with the crannogmen and their defenses I would go with the lore argument.

At this point in the map's evolution we are going to be lucky if we get one final update from JT. Thankfully the map is in a pretty good place as is.
Posts: 216
I don't know a thing about this... but what would it take for someone to just edit the map and remove the buff? Then they could reupload the file to Bnet. Is this possible?
Posts: 1,443
The answer is no, unless JTaylor e-mails the map to someone else, has them edit it and send it back for him to upload. The only other option would, again, require him to e-mail it, as well as take his copy down altogether and let the other person put up the new version.
Posts: 216
Yeah, I had assumed it was something like that. Oh well. Hopefully he'll come back and just remove the debuff.
Posts: 34
I do know the lore, having read all the books, including the part in book _____ where _____ meets up with the garrison of ______ actually stationed in the neck, with some of their men badly diseased and poisoned, their garrison commander ________ succumbing to the poison from a Crannog dart. It's like that other person said above, it's not so much the fact of it actually doing anything so much as it is the poor implementation, more so than just "make sure it doesn't affect Stark" because theoretically, unlike the pass of Dorne, there is a distinct intention for the Crannogmen to not attack people who should be going through, and to attack those who should be going through, and part of that would indeed involve a fair amount of ruining trails so that army bands get lost or fall away from the main road, and intentionally luring or diverting them into traps and unsafe areas.

The main difference would be that theoretically, an ally of the Starks (or perhaps whoever holds Moat Cailin and the Neck) would have the Crannogmen not only stand down, but actually help them through without suffering the sorts of damage. This is entirely different from the Dornish desert, in that it's a lot smaller, and it's a lot more liveable; it's wet and heavily shaded where the desert is dry and very open.

Plus, to add a whole new layer of gamebreaking sequencing to it, unlike the Dornish desert, if a commander really doesn't want to deal with the Neck, they can always set fire to it and/or cut down the trees.
Edited by AndarielHalo on 11/22/2012 6:51 PM PST
Posts: 17

The Best starters for Stannis, As My Favorite house. And then greyjoy. I am here to lay down a new debate of. Where to go for on stannis?


In my opinion. And I want to hear other peoples opinions too but. Going north is a complete waste of god-dang time. And also risky and just overall bad.
Reason? First of all. You could have a contending greyjoy that wants the north as well. Though allying a greyjoy as stannis is particularly easy in my opinion. You also have the problem a horrible night's watch. And Others just come over and @!!*##%% you. Which happens constantly. And Also. Travel time to the north with transport is...too long. and Lastly. If hes even a half good player as a stark. You can easily get pushed back.


This is......Okay, I guess. In my opinion. I find it decently normal to hard on taking the vale. Unless he quit. but I'm not talking about players that quit. I'm talking about a half decent player and above. It's easy to harrass vale towers with Ser Davos. Its rewarding though. It gets you close to KL. and good defensive point. and good Soldiers. Landing in the vale is hard early game. since u can easily get repelled. but once you got a naval force. u can just charge in there and you should be okay.


This is the best in my opinion. Ice and Dark Sister lay in the crownlands. And early pressure to lannister with ser davos can weaken lannister. As I have noticed. not that much people attack KL early on. and when it gets late game. KL defenses can be a pain in the !@#. And. If you have arryn as a ally. You can easily reinforce the crownlands and take maidenpool and harrenhal. Giving you your win condition. a good amount of men. and can strike anywhere.


This is the worst in my opinion. Besides celtigar axe. This is what cersei and tyrion wanted in the books. For the brothers to fight and waste there time. This is basically it. You're wasting renly's valuable time when he could be hitting lannister. And if you somehow manage to take renly. you can easily get conquered. theres no strong defensible spots that Vale or Crownlands have. Yes, if lannister is bad, you may have a advantage on hitting renly but....Its just not worth it in my opinion. unless you wanna land in and make a demon shadow baby to assassinate renly ;) (after doing it multiple times. i succeeded one time)


This is what I do. First. I use Davos to harrass renlys northern post (Forgot the name but it holds celtigar axe) And I do that to take out the 4 towers. If renly places a obs after losing 1 tower. (HE always loses 1 tower) Then I just leave him and travel to the crownlands. If you have arryn allied. I always ally arryn. it should make it easier. First. I try to get duskendale defences with davos. If lannister responds and doesn't let his defenses fall. he will send his obs from KL. and he usually posts it between dusken and the keep to protect both. So then I travel to Kings landing and I hit the defenses there. Particularly the ballistae. This should take about 10 minutes ravaging the defenses with davos. After that. IF you don't have duskendale cleared out and You can't reach Dark sister. Go for celtigar axe next. IF you can get dark sister...well thats good. and go for celtigar axe next. Meanwhile all of this. You should be upgrading your buildings (if you didn't figure that out). And for now. That is my strategy on how to play stannis!


Uhh...I want your opinions. Not even sure why I made this section.
Edited by LtShinySides on 12/6/2012 7:52 AM PST
Posts: 27
*sigh*, its really sad to check this every couple of days and not have anything posted in over a month. Is this the end of Song?
Posts: 14
I hope that this isn't the end for this map, because it is honestly one of the best sc2 custom maps, even if everyone if lotr channel hates it.
Posts: 1,443
I hope that this isn't the end for this map, because it is honestly one of the best sc2 custom maps, even if everyone if lotr channel hates it.

Some food for thought; this is not, strictly speaking, even a LotR-style map, but a diplomacy with heroes. They might seem the same, but there are actually a few vital differences in gameplay. The changing alliances, for one, as well as the lack of base sniping or recall (both present in virtually every LotR map). The objectives, as well, are often conflicting. LotR maps have the same victory conditions for every player: kill the other team(s). Here, there are wildly different objectives, where at least three players absolutely require King's Landing in order to win, even as it is irrelevant to the Night's Watch.
As for why the map is outright hated by some people (I don't, personally, but I am a pretty miserable failure at negotiation, and there are very few people who like consistently losing), my guess is that it is considered to be a map for less skilled players, owing to.......well, the lack of certain mechanics, as well as the respawning heroes. There are probably a few other reasons that aren't coming to my mind, though.
Posts: 14
Well to be fair when your hero dies like half an hour into the game, hes almost next to useless, cause he'll lose his upgrades, and equipment, and while i do like lotr games, i like this one, and i dont think it really deserves all the hate it gets, even if it is a bit less skilled of a game
Posts: 188
This game definitely isn't dead. Every time I want to play there are people on and playing. Sometimes I have to wait 15 minutes, but I'm at my computer already so it's not hard to find something to do with that time.
Posts: 17
This game receives hate? I didn't know that. This game just has a small community is all. I can say a good 30-70 players in our community. And honestly, its hard to get into this game. Like I had a hard time, mainly because of the insane lag. lol. Thats the only thing I can hate about this game.
Posts: 14
This games fun, but i think the neck debuff has to go
Posts: 14
Oh, and i dont know why everyone complains about the re spawning hero, it is one hero, and never really the best hero on the house, and it loses its stats. equipment when it is killed, i dont know, to me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal
Posts: 188
Yeah, I agree. the respawning hero is always terrible when they come back (except Lyn Corbray and Oberyn, because of rally and being Martell's only gather army, respectively. They are also both very, very good).
Posts: 17
What about Jon Snow? D:
Posts: 188
He's pretty good, but nowhere near the level of those other two.

Also, why doesn't Night's Watch or Wildlings have gather army? Often the war at the wall will end, and gather army would be really helpful.
Posts: 17
Yeah, I always had that question too, since Jeor mormont rallied the armys when setting out on the great ranging. And Mance rallied the armies of all the wildlings. So....I wonder why JTaylor never added that feature in for wilds/nw
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