StarCraft® II

SC2 Ladder Misconceptions FAQ

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Posts: 103
bump, still no answer
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Posts: 397
None of this makes any sense. They intend all players to have a W/L ratio of 1, but that isn't evident in how they present our statistics.

What I find most problematic is that wins and losses are defined only by outcome. This is the single greatest flaw in the system. Regardless of what occurs during a match, only the outcome is of any relevance. If I carry my team to victory, my teammates are receiving the same reward and mark on their record as I am, even though they contributed very little. If the enemy players begin team-killing each other, I'm still awarded a win for having little to no bearing on the outcome. This is a huge issue, because our W/L records are merely a representation of circumstance, rather than the indicator of personal skill and ability that it's meant to be.

Fail.
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Posts: 1,171
None of this makes any sense. They intend all players to have a W/L ratio of 1, but that isn't evident in how they present our statistics.

What I find most problematic is that wins and losses are defined only by outcome. This is the single greatest flaw in the system. Regardless of what occurs during a match, only the outcome is of any relevance. If I carry my team to victory, my teammates are receiving the same reward and mark on their record as I am, even though they contributed very little. If the enemy players begin team-killing each other, I'm still awarded a win for having little to no bearing on the outcome. This is a huge issue, because our W/L records are merely a representation of circumstance, rather than the indicator of personal skill and ability that it's meant to be.

Fail.


So... If I'm losing a match, I only need to start TKing my teammates to reduce the reward that my opponent gets from winning?
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Posts: 397
None of this makes any sense. They intend all players to have a W/L ratio of 1, but that isn't evident in how they present our statistics.

What I find most problematic is that wins and losses are defined only by outcome. This is the single greatest flaw in the system. Regardless of what occurs during a match, only the outcome is of any relevance. If I carry my team to victory, my teammates are receiving the same reward and mark on their record as I am, even though they contributed very little. If the enemy players begin team-killing each other, I'm still awarded a win for having little to no bearing on the outcome. This is a huge issue, because our W/L records are merely a representation of circumstance, rather than the indicator of personal skill and ability that it's meant to be.

Fail.


So... If I'm losing a match, I only need to start TKing my teammates to reduce the reward that my opponent gets from winning?


In an ideal system, players are rewarded for their performance. Several different statistics would need to be used in the calculations, such as the cost of units compared to their actual effectiveness under the player's control, with bonus points for taking advantage of strengths and weaknesses.

I can see scoring going in two different ways: one that normalizes all scores, ranks them, and rewards players on a comparative basis, or another that allows players to continuously earn points based on their actions without setting a firm cap or limit. If you were team-killing your partners, you would only be robbing your opponents of the opporunity to gain points if there wasn't a firm cap in place. Although, for that, you would receive a penalty to your points.
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Posts: 2,581
This is a good and informative post, thank you.

Although, I think the major question is:

Why is the text color for MVPs a mix between barf and urine-colored?
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Posts: 4
it seems blizzard made it to be 50/50 no matter what, i mean reality isn't always 50/50(i know its a game).. So making a game based upon that isn't much fun... as you can see with players getting matched against higher league players just because they win 5-8 games in a row. Who cares if u have people with high win %! Its supposed to be part of the game and why it makes it fun! You say its fair, but really if Arranged Teams can be pitted against other random players in a league who also don't even know one another. How on earth is that 50/50 let alone fair?

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Posts: 26
[quote]
If you're talking about your 1v1 performance, I see a few examples of games where you only gained 1 (+1 bonus) point. You're in the Bronze Zero crowd, so read that question near the bottom of the second post and you'll have your answer as to why that's happening.


Dear ExcaliburZ:

I am more confused than ever. My current stats are Bronze R70, 0 pts, 47-52 (47%) win-loss ratio. Again I am being paired with people I am always slightly favored or full favored against. Since my last post on page 5 I believe, I have fought a total of 2, let me emphasize that: "2" people who were favored against me. Both of whom were doing their placement matches. The one opponent I beat for a nice 45 pt gain. The second I lost for a total of -1 point. After the 45 pt gain, and after a streak of winning more than I was losing ( I got my rank up to 50ish with a 50% WLR) I STILLfaced people who I was favored against or the odd rare teams even. My points yet again dissapeared faster than I could replenish them.

Every match I check the opponent. I check who they've fought. I check what rank/pts/WLR they have. And 99% are far above me (Please feel free to look at my last 20 or so 1v1 match-ups). High bronze to mid silver to even a couple gold players. And I...am always...favored. I'm not a gold player. Heck I'm probably not even a mid-silver player. But this system seems intent on keeping me at the bottom of the fish-pond. I read the Bronze zero Q&A. It made sense at first but that sense has since left me. So a few questions. Please don't take this as me being angry, but rather extremely frustrated.

How many matches must I play before my supposed negative MMR gets to where it should be? And secondly, how can my MMR ever actually rise when the multiplayer match-up system does its best to force a WLR of 50% for each player because this is the "fair-way to do it"? This is not the fair way to do it for a person with a negative MMR. Which brings me to my next question:

Is the built-in SC2 matchmaking (which forces a player WLR of 50% give or take a few percentage points) forcing this situation on me? Meaning: every time I get close to 50% WLR I fight people who outclass me, yet are still less favored than myself so I lose more points due to this MMR. And thus the system keeps my WLR within the 50% range, but I'm essentially told to: "stay at the bottom where I belong".

If so, does this mean I have to play 2 divisions above my current skill and go streaky for 5-10 games just to move myself into a reasonable position in my own division? Does that form of ladder system even come close to making sense?

Any feedback you have would be appreciated. This system is aggravating me to no end. And making the game extremely un-enjoyable. No person wants to see themselves doing the same thing as everyone else and getting no where with it while others move up in ranks. This is what myself and the other "Bronze-Zero" crowd are feeling like.





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Posts: 379
There is one assumption in ur logic that is throwing you off. That is that MMR equals points. The two have nothing to do with one another.

Since you are in the bronze zero group, it is literally impossible foelr you to have a positive point value until your MMR is above zero. You assume that your MMR is not rising because your points aren't, that is incorrect.

Maintain a > 50% W/L ratio and your MMR will eventually rise above zero and you will start accumulating points.
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Posts: 379
^^^^^^ link? Or no better than everyone else.
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Posts: 826
Can someone just give me the equation for division rank changes, or the Elo rating you are given, both ghost and real.... I took some statistics classes in college, i will be able to understand that better than all of these 6 pages, and save me lots of reading.
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Posts: 379
It's hidden by blizzard, working as intended. Hence, the 6 pages.
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Posts: 379
Reliable source. Very interesting, with the 20%.

Edit: while the source is reliable the info is flat wrong. Worldwide 600k in bronzr, 100k in diamond. Not the 2-5% claimed, but nowhere near an even split.
Edited by Megedam on 10/23/2010 3:33 AM PDT
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 2,112
^^^^^^ link? Or no better than everyone else.


They stated it during Blizzcon that it's 20/20/20/20/20 split

with grand master it will be something like

.00001/4.9999/15/20/20/20/20


That's something we don't quite understand, because it contradicts SC2Ranks parses. I thought that maybe they intended the design to be 20/20/20/20/20, but in the panel Greg kept insisting that was the distribution. Maybe he was working off internal data and the ladder distribution will be equalized (except for Master [top 1%] and GM [top 200]) when those new leagues become available?
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Posts: 1,685
I thought it was interesting when the 20% split was announced. If this is the case, I'm wondering if it only applies to active players. I'm willing to bet that a good majority of newer players try the league system to see what it's like, but then no longer play (which is why we have such a large population in the lower leagues).
Edited by Paul on 10/28/2010 12:40 PM PDT
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Posts: 124
Why have I seen 'teams even' when facing someone in a much lower league? Is that an implication that I'm not currently in the correct league?
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Posts: 261
How are you a MVP - Starcraft II? What rank is that and how did you get it?
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