StarCraft® II

Phantom Mode

Just thought I'd complement whoever created the Phantom Mode Map! It is awesome and it's uber-fun to manipulate and decieve people when you're the Phantom. Keep up the good work Infernal!
Edited by PoZesT on 9/14/2010 5:28 PM PDT
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I don't think vision should be shared by default, I think people vote to share vision. Makes games interesting.
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Thanks PoZesT!
If anyone has any suggestions just post them. I take everything into consideration.
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I noticed you released two or three new versions tonight alone. What are you fixing/changing?

Oh: and props to you for the awesome map mode! I barely escaped the clutches of a dark green, and escaped with 1 drone, which turned into many, which turned into many more...It was a good game.

Here's the replay if you really want to see:

http://tw.iownthiswebhost.com/phantommodeownage.SC2Replay
Edited by Skyler on 9/19/2010 11:15 PM PDT
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Heres a suggestion:

Get rid of that alliance button. We already have one on the top right corner.
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If you haven't noticed, the button in the top-right doesn't work, probably for Starcraft 2 reasons, so I am assuming that the alliance button is a workaround.
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A couple of suggestions:
a leaderboard that tallies each player's unit count
incentive to try to knock out who the phantom is early (to prevent long boring games)
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I'd suggest maybe making resources more scarce and/or increasing the supply limit. So far every game I've had just lasted until everyone was maxed and out just building a ton of defenses and it didn't matter who the phantom was anymore.

Suggestions:
- Increase supply limit to 300 (gives the Phantom more of an advantage, players are all reaching the supply limit to fast)
- Reduce available resources from the base
- Reduce natural expansion resources (no one uses them now anyways, but they should be especially by Slayers)
- Remove shared vision entirely. If it's a game of deception, shared vision defeats the purpose
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The phantom slowly gets supply over 200 the more he "gets stronger". Everyone else is still capped at 200.

I just crashed twice:

1. When both phantoms were destroyed, the game continued for some strange reason. However, when the next person was destroyed, it was an instant freeze crash to desktop. No error submission for Blizzard.

2. At game start, not sure what caused it, but I crashed as the checkboxes to vote came up.
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I Greatly enjoy the game, but agree with Spectre's Changes.
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Worst game I have played. Period. And I played a lot in Starcraft, Brood War, and Warcraft III.

Phantoms have no chance to win if the game drags on. The sheer amount of population achievable by the other players easily offsets and removes any bonus the phantoms get in resources or additional population. At twenty minutes, a population cap of 220 is not going to offset the six people who each can have 200 population.

Second, phantoms have no way to determine who the other phantom is until about twenty minutes in, when you get the message "The other Phantom is:". By this point, it won't matter. As I stated before, the bonuses phantoms get is easily offset by sheer numbers. If you decide to unally and unvision everyone, you're labeled a Phantom and you're swamped. If you leave everyone visioned, your're labeled a Phantom when people see exactly what you are building and researching, and how fast you are doing it.

Possible solutions:

Place destructible terrain at the entrances to all bases. This will delay early rushes, making the game a bit more balanced.

Let the phantoms know who the other phantom is at the start.

Keep the population cap at 200 for phantoms. However, increase the HP of phantom buildings and units by 10% of their base every ten minutes, and add one additional upgrade level to weapons, armor, and shields, if the upgrades are at level 3.

Remove shared vision entirely, as was suggested by someone else. This will prevent people from being able to pick out the phantoms three minutes into the game, but also adds to the "deception" portion of the map.


Everyone would notice the hp boost and upgrades above 3 this is my suggestions. for phantoms have a special building they get at start of game that is impossible to see at all like unit size 0 and invisible for a fail safe. and after certain amount of time they will unlock special upgrades. If they get found out they can get special upgrades like per say ground unit upgrade that ups hp and armor instantly no research time etc. You can be creative with upgrades.


Also u could make the building be at a ridiculous height so no1 can click or see it. and make the building like a hero so they can just click on its hero icon on the side to access it.
Edited by Thundrag on 9/20/2010 3:19 PM PDT
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There needs to be a faster way to unally people (not saying it should be automatic, though).

I agree with the sentiment of others that sharable vision should be normally disabled. I also think bountiful resources should normally be disabled, since having a resource "cap" will encourage people to make more than one base and give the game a time limit. It's kind of silly when the game gets to the point that a person can warp in like 40 stalkers instantly and has a giant wall of photon cannons because of the amount of excess resources everyone has. I've seen games that drag on way too long because everyone has a billion defensive buildings everywhere.

I do not think that the phantoms should know who the other phantoms are. I also think it would be fun if there was a mode with an equal number of phantoms and slayers and no one got additional resources, but that's just me.
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As for what has been changing, mainly trying to reduce stalemates, added some chat commands, sound effects, zoom features, and trying to fix crashing bugs.

I'll try to address each suggestion:

"Get rid of the alliance button" - For some reason even when I didn't lock the teams, people still couldn't use the normal alliance button. Also this alliance button allows vision and/or ally, and not just ally. I would remove the normal alliance button, but Blizzard has not allowed this yet.

Resource Concerns - Players vote on resources, I would assume that if more players wanted fewer resources, this would happen more often. What I may do is make no options checked by default, so if a player doesn't care, their vote won't count.

Shared Vision Concerns - By disabling shared vision by default, I feel that the "deception" aspect actually decreases. Most players don't scout at all during the "no vision" games I have played. This allows the phantoms to not hide and just build to their heart's content.

Stalemates - I think this is the biggest problem with the map. People just sit there and don't do anything. What I am trying to do is make it so the Phantom continues to gain advantages over time, making it so people NEED to act before the Phantom becomes too powerful. I may further increase the supply the Phantom gains. 20 every 10 minutes may be too little. I also added so that if there are 2 Phantoms they get revealed to each other midway through the game.

Revealing Phantoms to each other at the start changes the game too drastically. This will cause 80% of Phantoms to rush. I think that doing it midway through is somewhat useful.

Adding damage/hp/shields/regen/etc to Phantom units are not an option, that entirely ruins the purpose of this game.

Please try to remember that the intended purpose for the game is for the Phantom to disguise themselves and trick other players into thinking they are not the Phantom. This continues until players start to dwindle. Then the Phantom should be powerful enough to reveal himself and conquer. The Phantom should not be able to simply attack at any moment and win with a full game or even a semi-full game.

Some changes I am considering:
Locking player colors to the default 8. This will allow me to set the player color in the alliance menu, making it easier to know who to unally. Currently the text is set to the player color, but there is a bug with the editor. So unless Blizzard fixes it, I need to lock player colors to achieve this.

Possible Phantom bonuses I am considering:
More supplies / faster supply increase
Reveal the entire map for Phantoms
Tell Phantoms what each player is at some point, so they know who the Paladins/Slayers are (This might help slightly)

I would like more suggestions on how to increase Phantoms power.
I will not take into consideration any suggestions that could possibly allow other players to know who the Phantom is at any point in time.

A secret building is a possibility.
What about a button, below the ally button, only for Phantoms, with a set of special powers they can use. Create natural disasters, drain other player's resources, turn off allied vision from 1 player to another for a short period of time, etc.
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I doubt this will be added but if a game reachs to a hour and a half to 2 hours make the game tell everyones roles and the phantom gets a bonus 80 supply or something. IDK cause ive had a game once that lasted 4 hours =/
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What about a button, below the ally button, only for Phantoms, with a set of special powers they can use. Create natural disasters, drain other player's resources, turn off allied vision from 1 player to another for a short period of time, etc.

I love it. Adding the element of chaos to this game is a great idea. And Thundrag, if your in a game that last for 4+ hours, its time to quit.
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First I wanna say, I love this map!

That said, it's got a couple issues. The biggest problem I've noticed: slayers quit out immediately. Most games I've played, at least one slayer has quit out right off. This can be a really long game, and people feel like they have a disadvantage as a slayer, so they quit. Once two slayers quit, the phantoms really have a huge advantage.

Possible fix: To give slayers something extra, you could make two of the slayers secret "prophets." They get no resource bonuses, but each prophet gets one prophetic vision 20 minutes into the game - each one finds out the identity of one of the paladins, if they're still alive. Slayers don't know whether they will be a prophet or not. This gives the slayers an edge and a reason to stick around, and it also opens up for more deception. A phantom can claim to be a prophet and misdirect everyone, for instance.

The identity of the phantoms will still be a secret, but the slayer prophet will have an edge because they will know one person is not the phantom.

Just an idea.
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I find that everyone in the game when they start just press vote, and they dont actually choose anything for the extras.

You should implement a random thing so that even if no one chooses anything to randomly select everything
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