StarCraft® II

Before I try out the map, and be sure that I will and provide my feedback, I must first say that this is excellent that you guys are doing this. Good work, and I will now go on and try the map!

I think these will be good changes.

If Blizzard seriously wants people to use Ravens you NEED to change the fact that you can't use spells once you're fungaled and change the range of seeker so it's equal to fungal. Right now if the Zerg player is half decent they'll fungal your Ravens well before they are in range of doing anything.

Edit: I stand corrected. You can use spells when fungaled, just not Seeker because of range.

Raven REALLY doesn't need buffs, you really have no clue just how good ravens actually are. 1 or 2 PDDs and your vikins will win the air battle even if its 5 vikings vs 20 corruptors, unless you stack every single viking into fungal. HSM is devastating vs zerg when actually used. BLs can not spread or run fast enough from it, infestors off creep can't outrun it either. The creep spread change will be devastating to zergs outside of the absolute top pro level of skill because creep is so important to surviving attacks. Honestly TvZ was heavily in terrans favor for almost 2 years and all we got was "wait and see" now that it has been in zergs favor for 1 month, and is now actually balanced (in terrans favor again in korea) you want to nerf zerg and buff terran, what a joke.

creep change sounds reasonable.
raven acceleration sounds good.

raven speed scares the jeepers out of me.

08/08/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Haplo

If Blizzard seriously wants people to use Ravens you NEED to change the fact that you can't use spells once you're fungaled and change the range of seeker so it's equal to fungal. Right now if the Zerg player is half decent they'll fungal your Ravens well before they are in range of doing anything.

Agreed. I like the changes but using raven with a large infestors count on the field is pretty rough to get it working.

08/08/2012 01:37 PMPosted by Oboeman

raven speed scares the jeepers out of me.

At the moment, I think it's going to be relatively reasonable.

08/08/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Gijian

If Blizzard seriously wants people to use Ravens you NEED to change the fact that you can't use spells once you're fungaled and change the range of seeker so it's equal to fungal. Right now if the Zerg player is half decent they'll fungal your Ravens well before they are in range of doing anything.

Agreed. I like the changes but using raven with a large infestors count on the field is pretty rough to get it working.

Which is why you learn to position. If you're talking infestor/BL, the ravens will get close enough to HSM the BLs before getting fungaled, otherwise if the infestors rush up to fungal they'll die to siege tanks. If you need to throw down a PDD to make sure the zergs corruptors roaches and/or mutas all do 0 damae, you can throw the PDD from further back and be completely safe.

revans are already too good.. its not difficult to use them.. i think the tumor will make zerg less accessible.. because tats what they are mainly known for... mobility .. i think they should leave both of the things same as before

The Raven buffs are welcome changes for Terrans, and it should help the Micro aspect of the unit.

However there's still the issue of it's spells. Pooling 125 energy takes a long time for Seeker Missile, even after the Energy upgrade.

My suggestions.

1. Seeker Missile energy cost, lowering it at 100 and implementing a 30second cooldown period. This way, it can't be casted more than once per engagement. While making it substantially easier to reach the required energy level.

2. Increase Seeker Missile range to 7, it is still easily outranged by Infestors/HT's but makes it easier to cast. Air units tend to clump up severely as is, and once they're Fungled - the Raven's death is just on a countdown.
At range 7, it helps ease the Microability of the Unit.

Considering Ghosts have been regulated to Anti-Caster roles in TvZ, Terran lacks a Late-Game Caster unit that is effective in assisting battles. Especially against late game Hive tech units.

While increasing the movement speed of the Raven is a welcome change, it's still a one-shot Unit. If you Seeker Missile's energy cost is lowered, the Raven can potentially drop a PDD, something much more useful in engagements or even 2 Turrets. Note that gaining 200 energy takes a long time, this isn't something that will be seen all the time but having the ability to do it matters.
For a unit as expensive as Ravens are, you'd expect it to have a bit more utility in a fight.

I'm a bit worried about how much a pita this is going to make it to spread creep up and down ramps. Can we plz put creep tumors on ramps if you're going to do this? That'd be good, I think. But I know it would break the game's rules about "buildings" on ramps...so w/e. What do you all think about this?

Well written and the best course of action without upsetting the balance of the game. Plim approves.

08/08/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Darklune

I'm a bit worried about how much a pita this is going to make it to spread creep up and down ramps. Can we plz put creep tumors on ramps if you're going to do this? That'd be good, I think. But I know it would break the game's rules about "buildings" on ramps...so w/e. What do you all think about this?

Actually yeah it's already hard to spread creep up/down ramps especially since some are bier than others. If this goes through they will need to let you put creep tumors on ramps instead of just on even ground. But it's blizzard so they won't

Ghost should be 150 Minerals 150 Gas, I dont see why this hasnt been changed yet, the ghost is so mineral heavy which cuts into other bio unit production, plus the time it takes to make them.

08/08/2012 01:43 PMPosted by hunts

Agreed. I like the changes but using raven with a large infestors count on the field is pretty rough to get it working.

Which is why you learn to position. If you're talking infestor/BL, the ravens will get close enough to HSM the BLs before getting fungaled, otherwise if the infestors rush up to fungal they'll die to siege tanks. If you need to throw down a PDD to make sure the zergs corruptors roaches and/or mutas all do 0 damae, you can throw the PDD from further back and be completely safe.

Usually it's rarely the corruptors that trouble terran enough for a PDD. Infestors in good enough quantity prevent any actions we try against the broodlord. In many cases, we outnumber viking to corruptors but can't afford to push that because of fungal and IM. HSM is also 6 range. Getting in a position to land it is doable, but it's a really big gamble because if zerg get wind it of, it's all dead raven before any spell is even dispensed. The time it takes to try to get more ravens to the energy needed for another HSM is probably too late and the game is pretty much over.

Watched nathanias on twitch try the map. The ravens definitely seem more usable especially at lower leagues with the speed increase. I think the creep reduction will help to do early pressure as well. Whether this makes it harder for higher level zergs, or throws off the high game, i have no idea. No expert in that department.