StarCraft® II

25 Reasons why Zerg is OP in TvZ

Posts: 893
This is a compilation of 101 MAJOR reasons why zerg is op in TvZ. The first 25 reasons will go up now. The other 76 will come later as I find more (from more laddering and comments).

I'm tired of facing the most stressful matchup knowing that there's nothing I can do half as well as the zerg. There is no reason I should be winning most of my TvTs and TvPs and losing almost every TvZ. I'm also tired of being told I'm just a QQer and that I should just get better. While those comments have truth in them, here's a truth for the rest of you.

A smart, resilient Zerg has complete control over the game from the second it starts. They can scout more efficiently than you, macro better than you, defend pressure better than you and be more aggressive than you.

Some of these reasons are not OP by themselves; everything together is what makes zerg OP. Please feel free to suggest more Zerg OPness that should be added here.

1. Unparalleled vision with creep and overlords
2. Overlord speed means a guaranteed secondary scout which is totally free
3. Queens shut down every type of aggressive 111 build with their ridiculous AA range
4. Zergs can instantly tech swap. (ex mass roach then muta to counter your counter to roaches)
5. Zergs dont have to commit to anything until they feel like it (making units, moving out)
6. Creep provides a 30% movement buff to zerg units. This means zerg gets to engage only when they feel like it.
7. Queen ground range means hellions cannot hinder zergs at all. Even though queens don't do that much damage, it doesn't take long to kill squishy hellions and walling off mineral lines is ez pz anyway.
8. Centralized larva at the hatchery means zerg doesn't have to think ahead about how much of certain units they want to get.
9. Zerglings. The fact that a zerg can just intstant remax on these things and stream them across any creep-filled map in literally 4 seconds is just stupid.
10. Zergs can scout your fe - which you CANT stop them from doing (or even kill the scouting ol) and pressure it easily without messing up their regular build. add 2 queens, some drones, zergling pressure. AKA zergs can be greedy while keeping you from being greedy
11. easy blocking of the 3rd with burrowed lings/ol pooping creep.
12. Terran has to spend apm every few seconds to keep up with production while zerg gets to watch their army and manage every economical and productive factor from 1 hotkey (hatcheries)
13. 1 mistake for terran (not splitting in time vs zerg aoe) = the zerg floods reinforcements and overwhelms you. 1 mistake for zerg (moving out of a bad engagement) means they flood reinforcements in 17 seconds and d then push you back.
14. zerg can instantly decide when to build a huge army for a timing in the blink of an eye whereas terran has to build up to that timing the whole game
15. zerg can easily expand/drone off the back of pressure and be perfectly safe

Because of reasons 4, 5, 6 and 8 the following are all OP

16. zerglings. 17. roaches. 18. mutas. 19. infestors. 20. ultras. 21. queens.

Broodlords are pretty much the only zerg unit that is NOT op and that is because they are limited by their movement speed (the one zerg unit that zergs actually have to think about and commit with)

22. Maps are filled with TONS and TONS of open spaces where zergs can easily flood you. Almost every single map choke - ESPECIALLY in the s8 map pool - is way out of your way. Every wide open space on maps is a buff for zerg. Where are the nooks, the crannies and the ledges to buff terran?

23. In line with reason 4, zergs can instantly tech swap in such a way that you can no longer counter it. Example, having not made 1 muta the whole game but did make a spire, zerg decides it's a good time to flood mutas and get 30 of them. They magic box your few thors (which are getting surrounded by zlings anyway) and then kill your pitiful amount of turrets at any expansion.

24. Zerg strength grows the longer the game goes on whilst Terran's dwindles. The buffs to queens, the nerfs to snipe and the ease of spreading creep all make it more likely that zergs will make it to that lategame.

25. Overlords are ridiculously overpowered. They become free (almost) detection, they can sit outside your base on elevated rocks (that you can't see unless you use a rax to float over the and waste the prod time) from whence they can see everything you have. Just look at TeamLiquids's Korhal Compound with plenty of raised platforms for OLs to hide over but none big enough for siege tanks to be dropped on. Also note the incredible openess of the map (moving across the middle = dead to lings) However, seeing as TeamLiquid is overflowing with Zergs it's not surprising that their maps have these Z imba qualities. Overlords are scouts, supply free dropships, potential detectors, creep spreaders and vision providers.
Edited by Alcibiades on 8/15/2012 4:07 PM PDT
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post saved for more QQing

25 reasons are plenty. Instead of adding more trivial reasons, I will just edit the ones I have in the future instead of looking for more.

Win rates are only roughly 50/50 for TvZ because players only work as hard as they need to in order to secure acceptable winrates. Terran has to work harder than Zerg to win. They must scout more as zerg builds are combustible (go out of control very fast). Terrans have to put 10x the effort into macro as zergs do. (don't believe me just add up all the apms required for a terran to max on 3 bases with marine/tank/medivac vs zerg doing w/e).

When Terran wins it typically means he won in multiple different areas of and is just more skilled at sc2. When a Zerg wins, he could be more skilled, or maybe (far more likely) the Terran player made 1 mistake and died or couldn't keep up using the same eAPM as the Zerg.

Here's what Blizzard has to say about TvZ:
"At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup"
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6873704/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-8_8_2012
Edited by Alcibiades on 8/15/2012 4:09 PM PDT
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and more QQ
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Posts: 973
26. because i lose to them
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Posts: 188
I agree Terran has it harder in TvZ, but a lot of those are exaggerated or just not really true. Also, (this is my personal opinion) the queen was upgraded to deal with transformer hellions in the next expansion(though then the range should have waited till then).
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Posts: 289
Don't worry, im sure a zerg is calling seige tanks imba somewhere. Zergs can literally make any unit and counter Marine tank Medvac, but if we don't have the perfect unit comp we will get owned. I wish I could pick a random terran unit and counter every zerg unit. Its just silly at this point, and trying to take a base without losing your entire worker line on your 3rd is about impossible.

Zealots and Zerglings are pretty OP against terran because they are imba melee units that can tank great.

Wanna rebalance the game? cut the health in half of all zerglings and zealots and well call it a start.
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Posts: 893
P.S.
Here's something cheerful about TvZ.

No one likes Zerg players. Not really. No one cheers when the zerg player beats the terran. It's incredibly uninteresting to watch because the terran is the underdog the whole game. Anyone remember DongRaeGoo's last MLG win? Vs. Alicia? No one really cheered him, because the collective audience didn't care about him (or Alicia for that matter) it was MKP they wanted to see take the win. When DongRaeGoo beat MKP the room felt like everyone wanted to "boo" him.

Look for more, you'll see what I mean. No one cares if the zerg wins or not because everyone knows that's the easy way for TvZ matches to end up. Even people who have no SC2 knowledge can feel that when watching the matchup.
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Posts: 289
08/09/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Khorze
I agree Terran has it harder in TvZ, but a lot of those are exaggerated or just not really true. Also, (this is my personal opinion) the queen was upgraded to deal with transformer hellions in the next expansion(though then the range should have waited till then).


Zerg shouldn't be able to fast expand every game without being punished, its just sad to see them fast expand, build 1 spine and survive everytime.

Marine rushes will get easily denied if the zerg is diamond or better.
Helion harass should do tons of damage but its a fair trade at best, saying you run in 4 helions and get 8 drones, or 8 helions and get 16 drones. So basically going helions actually sets you behind now.
Banshee play, well any zerg above diamond will have a evolution chamber up by 6 or 7 so that gets denied, remember 1 banshee = 350 resources, so if it dosent get atleast 7 kills it puts you behind.

Trying to go 3 orbitals is OK, but zergs mid game is far stronger than terrans. Our only shot before was dropping all over the map but the good zergs are dropping spines and spores at every expo so it dosent do any damage really anymore.

So I agree with the OP
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Posts: 4,464
The thing I'll never understand is why Terran must do damage but they've made it extremely hard compared to what Zerg has to do to inflict damage.

Attack as Terran: Slowly hop with siege tanks so you don't get EZ'd by tier 1 units.

Attack as Zerg: Just smash banelings into the wall and get atleast 2 into the mineral line.
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Brace yourself Terrans! I sense an impending horde of Zerg trolls wielding nonsensical arguments, corrupt logic, patronizing remarks, and childish insults.
Edited by DfensivSnuke on 8/9/2012 1:36 PM PDT
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08/09/2012 01:35 PMPosted by DfensivSnuke
Brace yourself Terrans! I sense an impending horde of Zerg trolls wielding nonsensical arguments, corrupt logic, patronizing remarks, and childish insults.
OH GOD! THE HORROR THAT IS ZERG TROLLZ!!! T.T
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Posts: 289
The thing I'll never understand is why Terran must do damage but they've made it extremely hard compared to what Zerg has to do to inflict damage.

Attack as Terran: Slowly hop with siege tanks so you don't get EZ'd by tier 1 units.

Attack as Zerg: Just smash banelings into the wall and get atleast 2 into the mineral line.


Slowly hop with seige tanks and get flanked, yea I get it, your bronze
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Posts: 888
MMM + A

Mule

Scan

Play some random,

if their so overpowered play some games as them and post them here.
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08/09/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Alcibiades
A smart, resilient Zerg has complete control over the game from the second it starts. They can scout more efficiently than you, macro better than you, defend pressure better than you and be more aggressive than you.


Except you don't even find smart resilient zergs most of the time in high masters and especially not sub that
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08/09/2012 02:14 PMPosted by BlackDeath
Except you don't even find smart resilient zergs most of the time in high masters and especially not sub that


Blizz shouldn't balance the game around all terrans being taeja and all zergs being Idra
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08/09/2012 02:39 PMPosted by DfensivSnuke
Blizz shouldn't balance the game around all terrans being taeja and all zergs being Idra


That's not what I'm saying but to respond to that point, if the game were balanced for low levels then there would be no point in playing any race other than terran at the highest level because terran would have a 70%+ winrate and no hope for balance changes. The pro scene would become TvT only and would slowly die out because nobody wants to watch the same thing over and over.
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08/09/2012 02:43 PMPosted by BlackDeath
The pro scene would become TvT only and would slowly die out because nobody wants to watch the same thing over and over.


You mean like how we are constantly seeing ZvP's over and over and over and over?
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08/09/2012 02:51 PMPosted by Kinaesthetic
You mean like how we are constantly seeing ZvP's over and over and over and over?


This isn't true and even if it was it would be ZvZ ZvP and PvP. I see at the very minimum 20% of games involving terrans in pro tournaments and that is a heck of a lot more than 0% which is what this game would become if it were balanced for low level players.
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Posts: 1,059
I don't have any problems with this match up. In Gold, you just macro well, look for a weak spot and push (simplified version of the way it actually works). As long as you aren't stranded in a sea of creep, it usually works out fine.

Of course, in Gold league, everyone (myself included) plays like a total retard and zergs do things like get hive tech at 11 min when they can't support it: so you get there and their army is 4 BLs, 2 infestors, and some zerglings...

zergs can be greedy while keeping you from being greedy


They really can't. If you see them take a third, just go ahead and get one of your own, even if it is an in base expo, you will be able to saturate your third by 11 min and, since zerg units (until BL/Infestor) are so much less cost efficient than Terran units, you should be able to macro your way to a win before they get hive tech up.
Edited by BrockLanders on 8/9/2012 7:06 PM PDT
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Posts: 123
Oh no another one of these threads.
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