StarCraft® II

25 Reasons why Zerg is OP in TvZ

Posts: 897
1. spreed creep requires 1 o 3 queens wasting time apm to expand the creep. u can come with 3 helions and radar and destroy all the tumors in 10 secons , for the zerg players spreed that cost like 10 minutes. if 1 overlod dies in mid or early game we get supply blocked

2.Overlord speed only give a little of vision , Sensor tower have a 80 range radius?.
Sensor towers require gas, are static and the radius can be seen by the enemy. Overlords are supply depots with about 4-5 different effective uses.

3.we need 2 queens to kill 1 banshee . helions can move to our drones , burning him down and go away easily.

Queens are cheaper and integrated into you build. also, 2-3 queens beats higher numbers of banshees due to transfuse.

4. 4 helions can defeat 100 zerglings , 4 thors can defeat 40 mutas , 5 tanks can defeat 40 roaches . really dont matter how fast u can swap tech , terran only need 4 of each unit and a ton of marines to defeat almost all army composition.

This is just not true unless the zerg tries to engage in the dumbest way possible. 100 speedlings WILL surround 4 hellions (if they are microed to run PAST the hellions then attack) 40 magic box muts would !!%! 4 thors (lmfao do you even play competent ZvT???) and 40 roaches beat the !@#$ out of 5 tanks (unless you choke roaches, or prevent a flank). also, banelings and infestors increase the effectiveness of all your units exponentially.

5.if any terran attacks, the zerg have to stop building drones and reduce his income to able defend and when more the next terran atack come u have less units that u lose defending and less income cuz u couldnt build drones.

how is this a bad thing for zerg? you're able to build defense at the last second and win...
6.creep provides 30% movement buff , without it any zerg army losses!
this is probably true

7.the queen is the only defense zerg have against early pressure
no, the queen is the only defense zergs have early because they get it early regularly. zergs are quite capable of making units/spores early to defend - they just need to be smart about it and not over commit.

8.Only lings and roaches have low building time , all the rest of the units give terran posibility to counter attack and take 1 o 2 expand before go back

higher build times are meaningless when you can make all of them at once with 1 structure to make it possible. and ultras are made 15 seconds faster than thors.

9.zerg can remax all the zerglins 5 helions can burning all them in 4 secons as well
if you lose max zerglings to 5 hellions, you ARE a bad zerg. I would crunch you to bits.

10.terran can go at the start of the freaking match and build 1 engineer bay and deny the necessary income for a reasonable defense and this is unavoidable

it's an even trade because the engy screws the terran over too

11.scan destroy land your CC. done. 400 minerals for 1 zergling costing 25? not that easy especially if OC energy is gone

12.zerg can hotkey all the hatchs in 1 , but they have to cast inject larva every 25 seconds or lose , terran can save energy all lauch all the mules at the same time.
inject larva is all the zergs have to do with macro.

13. choke point and zerg army is dead! so use your extra apm to not engage in a choke....

14.a hatch can only save 19 larvas and that takes 1 minute , also u need replace our army all the time, u need make drones instead of units in some moments .
19 larva is a lot. with 5+ hatch that's almost 100 larva right there. 200 zerglings in 20 seconds to hardcounter any terran army in the open! (minus 10+ bf hellions)
15.terran can build his CC and land it . that mean instant minning.
woo hoo we have 1 advantage!
Terran late game have cheat code , yes , "SHOW ME THE MONEY" 10000 minerals is the same the 20 mules droppping. instanly!

Planetary fortress + turrents +supply depot wall = u cant make damage to the terran expands

and im already tired of this . check last day9 daily taeja 80% TvZ win rate , only really noob terran cant defeat zerg. There's a HUGE difference between not being fricken good like Taeja and being a n00b terran. seriously gtfo
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Posts: 897
Balance T_Ting to the max.

Its almost like this fella traveled to the nether and got attacked by some 12 ghasts, and was permanently infused with their T_Tness. He then wrote this thread.

T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T T_T


lolololol this is funny xD (seriously)

do note my 2 P.S. posts that are saved for "QQ" and "more QQ." I know I'm over doing it a little bit
Edited by Alcibiades on 8/13/2012 3:44 PM PDT
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Posts: 897
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-489-p3-80-winrate-tvz-from-taeja-6298468

watch, learn, play, get the hell off the forums you could idk be winning some games?


I played 20 games yesterday, and TvT was ez pz at my level, TvP was almost a 90% winrate (but that was due to me getting placed against plats because TvZ is killing my MMR).

check out my match history. Alcibiades.486
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Posts: 897
Win rates are only roughly 50/50 for TvZ because players only work as hard as they need to in order to secure acceptable winrates. Terran has to work harder than Zerg to win. They must scout more as zerg builds are combustible (go out of control very fast). Terrans have to put 10x the effort into macro as zergs do. (don't believe me just add up all the apms required for a terran to max on 3 bases with marine/tank/medivac vs zerg doing w/e).


This is a joke right? Tell me this is a joke? Are you really going to say the top zerg players are just too lazy to get better since they are already winning enough. The top players of all three races do EVERYTHING they possibly can to achieve their win rate.

Also:
Win rates are only roughly 50/50 for TvZ


/thread


No I am not joking, and no I don't mean that Zerg players are lazy. I'm saying that the way the game works right now does not force Zergs to be innovative with their different strengths. I can't tell you how many pro-level ZvTs I've seen "professional" Zerg players lose just because they attacked when it was STUPID to do so.

In the lategame, zerg has more potential than Terran to seize control of the game. That is what provides imba to the MU
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Posts: 897
Last post here tonight: I think it's incredibly stupid of people to point at Taeja's winrate vs Zerg and say "MU not OP!"

Here's the real deal - Taeja is really freaking good. And really freaking good people will even beat other people with an imba advantage because they're really freaking good. Zergs will work hard to fight Taeja's style. His winrate will go down the longer his career continues.

But seriously, saying Taeja makes TvZ balanced is like saying "all you need to do to get rid of your cancer is to become Jesus! Seriously dude, you're going to die soon, why aren't you making this happen!?"
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Posts: 1,163
Last post here tonight: I think it's incredibly stupid of people to point at Taeja's winrate vs Zerg and say "MU not OP!"

Here's the real deal - Taeja is really freaking good. And really freaking good people will even beat other people with an imba advantage because they're really freaking good. Zergs will work hard to fight Taeja's style. His winrate will go down the longer his career continues.

But seriously, saying Taeja makes TvZ balanced is like saying "all you need to do to get rid of your cancer is to become Jesus! Seriously dude, you're going to die soon, why aren't you making this happen!?"


Lol, yes Taeja's really good. Yes he can beat people who have an advantage over him. But to say Taeja is SC2 god and that the Zergs he plays aren't any better just have a race advantage is absurd. Zerg QQ'd Toss until Stephano discovered his 12 min max, then Toss QQ'd because it was impossible to stop until people stopped it. And now all you hear are Terran tears hit the floor. Every style of play changes and adapts to win against the others. Taeja figured out how to win in the match up so figure out what he does and make it work against the people around your skill level.

I'll go ahead and call it. This new creep nerf will come out. Terran's will be back on top (like they have been since forever) and zerg will QQ the creep nerf when it really doesnt change anything for the community on the forums. The terrans just learned to adapt. Then there will be another inconsequential change, zergs will bounce back, and Terrans will blame it on the "buff".
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Posts: 103
QQ Early aggressions and all ins don't auto gg. WHY TERRAN NOT WORKING! !@#$ noob terrans.
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Posts: 517
08/11/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Carnage
Anyone else see Day9's video about QQing terrans and the 80% win rate vs zerg?


Taeja has almost 400 apm in his games. The dude could play any race and dominate
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Posts: 187
08/12/2012 03:34 AMPosted by IMRobB
QQ Early aggressions and all ins don't auto gg. WHY TERRAN NOT WORKING! !@#$ noob terrans.

the dude won 7 game (5 in a row than 2 more befor losing one) against some of the best people in the sc2 world last night in a team league almost by him self and only lost because he was tired of playing long matches all day (he got problem at his wrist ) so unless you can keep 350+ apm for about 45 min none stop you cant be on the same lvl as taeja
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Posts: 323
Don't forget how newer maps have give Zerg's the perfect high ground spots to put their overlords where they can spy on your natural.
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Posts: 1,163
08/12/2012 07:43 AMPosted by DfensivSnuke
Don't forget how newer maps have give Zerg's the perfect high ground spots to put their overlords where they can spy on your natural.


So Zerg isn't supposed to be able to scout your natural?
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Posts: 897
08/12/2012 08:54 AMPosted by Common
Don't forget how newer maps have give Zerg's the perfect high ground spots to put their overlords where they can spy on your natural.


So Zerg isn't supposed to be able to scout your natural?


No, Zerg shouldn't be able to have overlords invulnerable out on 10 places in the map, until you get air to grant sight, when Terran can't utilize those same cliff spots for tanks. Zerg doesn't need to scout your base anyway, they just need to see the push coming from outside your base (zerglings ftw)
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Posts: 8,097
08/09/2012 01:35 PMPosted by DfensivSnuke
Brace yourself Terrans! I sense an impending horde of Zerg trolls wielding nonsensical arguments, corrupt logic, patronizing remarks, and childish insults.


inb4 suggesting to use Ravens
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Posts: 1,163
08/12/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Alcibiades
No, Zerg shouldn't be able to have overlords invulnerable out on 10 places in the map, until you get air to grant sight, when Terran can't utilize those same cliff spots for tanks. Zerg doesn't need to scout your base anyway, they just need to see the push coming from outside your base (zerglings ftw)


So if I can sit an overlord, one of our only way of scouting, which will die, to see whether or not your doing one of the 20 various, then you should be able to siege a tank on that same area and deal ridiculous damage to by economy with no way to fight back seeing as our only AA early game is queens.

Also, if you think waiting until the army is coming out of the base is enough to prepared for the 20 different all in's terran can do, you're sorely mistaken. We need to know if you have a tech lab on our startport before the banshee gets to our base. We need to know if your going 5 rax of marines or blue flame hellions. If we don't know these things before hand, we can't prepare. If you've ever played zerg you'd know what it's like to send a ling up a ramp to meed a bunker of marines, prepare banes and lings later only to find he has blue flame hellions that roast your entire army in one attack. Or try to fly in an ovie that gets killed before anything is revealed (very easy to do by the way) and prepared for potential banshees only to find tanks sieged at your front door a couple seconds later. And if you don't catch tanks before the siege, its just about impossible to break that line.
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Posts: 92
There's only one reason why the match up is imba and that's the queen. All others are just how zerg works. They need the instant remax and creep since Z is supposed to be reactive with their !@#$ty units to remax with. To be reactive you need vision, to remax instantly and be balanced, you give Z %^-* units like every unit except BL/Festor.
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Posts: 1,102
The problem, as others have already stated, is that Zerg can fast expand without so much as a care in the world, and be *completely* safe vs anything short of an all-in.

Case in point... My last game, I have 20 marines going across the field at 6 minutes. The Zerg? He went *hatch first*, and has built 6 lings. But his 6 lings are at my natural. So what's he do? He drops 3 spines and moves his queens to the front, and makes a few more lings. INSTANTLY he's safe.

Try it. Try it in the unit tester... 20 marines vs 3 spines, 2 queens. You WILL lose every single time. Try 26 marines vs the same thing with 12 lings (which can build in the time you have another 2 waves moving across the field).

What happens if Terran TRIES the same thing? Dead, no matter what.
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Posts: 62
The problem, as others have already stated, is that Zerg can fast expand without so much as a care in the world, and be *completely* safe vs anything short of an all-in.

Case in point... My last game, I have 20 marines going across the field at 6 minutes. The Zerg? He went *hatch first*, and has built 6 lings. But his 6 lings are at my natural. So what's he do? He drops 3 spines and moves his queens to the front, and makes a few more lings. INSTANTLY he's safe.

Try it. Try it in the unit tester... 20 marines vs 3 spines, 2 queens. You WILL lose every single time. Try 26 marines vs the same thing with 12 lings (which can build in the time you have another 2 waves moving across the field).

What happens if Terran TRIES the same thing? Dead, no matter what.


dude what? wtf ru talking about? Its a strategy game. l2p
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Posts: 488
All 101 reasons should say "I suck and can't adjust to anything"

I'm not gonna say there aren't any balance issues at all. But there certainly aren't 101 of them. Unless you're REALLY grabbing at straws or making !@#$ up.

I think I've got it WAY better than all of you %^-*!y people though. I started playing after the Queen buff. So I'll learn to adjust. Thankfully I'll never be one of you that spend their days on a forum crying about how you can no longer get your Hellions into a Zerg's mineral line because of Queens or any other crap.

You know how to properly respond to an imbalance in a game? DEAL WITH THE DAMNED THING! If you truly enjoy the game you would. And when you do overcome it you'll be a better player than the guys that just sat around @#$%^ing all day.

And before someone goes "lulz ur silvr scrub". What of it? I'm still not someone sitting around all day -*!@#ing instead of learning to adjust.
Edited by PanZxJassie on 8/13/2012 5:47 AM PDT
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Posts: 897
All 101 reasons should say "I suck and can't adjust to anything"

I'm not gonna say there aren't any balance issues at all. But there certainly aren't 101 of them. Unless you're REALLY grabbing at straws or making !@#$ up.

I think I've got it WAY better than all of you %^-*!y people though. I started playing after the Queen buff. So I'll learn to adjust. Thankfully I'll never be one of you that spend their days on a forum crying about how you can no longer get your Hellions into a Zerg's mineral line because of Queens or any other crap.

You know how to properly respond to an imbalance in a game? DEAL WITH THE DAMNED THING! If you truly enjoy the game you would. And when you do overcome it you'll be a better player than the guys that just sat around @#$%^ing all day.

And before someone goes "lulz ur silvr scrub". What of it? I'm still not someone sitting around all day -*!@#ing instead of learning to adjust.


1. I don't spend a significant time working on this.
2. This is a T_T thread for frustrated Terrans. Note my 2cnd and 3rds posts.
3. I do adjust. It's called the 11-11 where I blind bunker rush the zerg nat with a 2 rax, 1 proxied. 50% of games, bunker completes and Zerg ggs :D
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