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Oh, good response there, well thought out...
I've seen the 11-11 bunker rush, but refuse to do it every game. Having to resort to all-in cheese just to be able to win vs Zerg is ridiculous. It's what ruins games like this.
I lol'd at this.
Snafu = Hammer (new name).
His builds are, unique :P
I don't feel like I "have" to 11-11 every game to win. It's just my way of saying "I'm not going to play TvZ." :)
The 12-14 proxy rax into expanding into zergs third is super fun. And if they 15 hatch, 15 pool, your scvs that built the rax can bunker wall off their ramp, kill the expo and put a PF there for an ez win. Vikingprime has guide on tl.
It's a way of saying: "this map is too big, so I'm just going to build my base closer. It's perfect for going mech, solves the immobility problem by building your base in their base.
I wouldn't say zerg is OP.
I will say that zerg is easier to scout with, and that current zerg builds are built to be safe against early aggression.
Learn some hellion banshee builds, feel out the early-mid game, get faster expansions, etc. Understand that if you can't punch him in the face right now, poke him with sticks while building your infrastructure, then throw everything at him when he gets past his 4th.
I strongly feel that anything below 500 pt masters on NA can be summed up as a lack of mechanics. Terran is a difficult race to learn, you are not at the level where your mechanics can no longer improve (micro, macro, and scouting). Emphasis on micro for late game engagements.
Edited by Niipa on 8/14/2012 7:16 PM PDT
Why did i get beat by a zerg?
Riiiiiiight... because I have historically an 80% TvP win rate... around 70% TvT win rate, and in the last few months have about a 35% TvZ win rate... (it used to be around 70% too)
It just must be that I'm finding random Zergs that are soooooooo much better than me, but everyone else isn't.
Get real dude.
Actually the longer the game the better terrans get too. Though zergs have infestor, ultralisks, broodlords... terrans have thors, ravens, ghosts, tanks/banshees, and workers rapidly repairing. Eventually our repair workers will die and leave open supply for more troops. Think of it. Thors can tank/kill corrupters/kills mutas/kill any remaining broodlords. Ravens can hsm broodlords and detect any burrowed infestors. Ghosts can still snipe infestors and clean up zerglings. Tanks/banshees will help against ultras and roaches. Its just the fact that terran lategame is very hard to get to.
Try some MM Hellion timings if you scout a 3rd early on. Block off the third with the hellions and have the marauders kill the hatch with the marines, put marauders in front and have hellions and marines do the DPS when attacking, seems to work well for me. TvP is my problem.
Don't worry, im sure a zerg is calling seige tanks imba somewhere. Zergs can literally make any unit and counter Marine tank Medvac, but if we don't have the perfect unit comp we will get owned. I wish I could pick a random terran unit and counter every zerg unit. Its just silly at this point, and trying to take a base without losing your entire worker line on your 3rd is about impossible.
wth are u smoking? zergs are screwed when u go MMM we can't do anything vs seige tanks/marine unless we have a prepared larger supply of zerglings, infestors are useless, roaches get 3 shotted in huge aoe and lings are completely useless since u can't get a good surround and by the time u do u'll of lost a huge chunk of them from tank fire. Not to mention zerglings are extremely larva consumptive.
Edited by kavinh on 9/13/2012 11:24 PM PDT
I think zerg are a little op, not as much as toss are.
The problem I have, is that Blizzard wants us to do early damage, but then makes it impossible with queens.
Tech switches are also unfair, but the main issue for me is just how much more risk, there is for Terran compared to zerg, and over lord scots are op, im sorry but you literally can not stop them from seeing what ever the hell your doing, and any kind of surprise attack like banshees or drops are impossible to get to their base with out being seen first, if Terran did not need to do early damage, it would not be such a big deal, but thats not the case, so its just not far for Terran.
1. Unparalleled vision with creep and overlords
That's why ravens, scanner sweeps, marines, missile turrets, sensor towers, and vikings were invented.
2. Overlord speed means a guaranteed secondary scout which is totally free
Anything that shoots at the air...
3. Queens shut down every type of aggressive 111 build with their ridiculous AA range
MMM. Reapers. Micro skills.
4. Zergs can instantly tech swap. (ex mass roach then muta to counter your counter to roaches)
So can you.
5. Zergs dont have to commit to anything until they feel like it (making units, moving out)
Well, to be fair, neither do you. But that's not a problem with the race, that's a problem with the players.
6. Creep provides a 30% movement buff to zerg units. This means zerg gets to engage only when they feel like it.
Yeah, but they move more slowly off creep. You realize that you don't have that handicap, right?
7. Queen ground range means hellions cannot hinder zergs at all. Even though queens don't do that much damage, it doesn't take long to kill squishy hellions and walling off mineral lines is ez pz anyway.
You should mostly be using your hellions for raiding mineral lines, not engaging with the enemy, but also try the blue flame upgrade. And Zerg aren't as easily able to wall off as Terran or Protoss, so, nonsense.
8. Centralized larva at the hatchery means zerg doesn't have to think ahead about how much of certain units they want to get.
That doesn't make any sense.
Two marines behind a wall can easily kill six zerglings. Marines supported by medivacs with combat shields and stim can butcher zerglings in the open.
10. Zergs can scout your fe - which you CANT stop them from doing (or even kill the scouting ol) and pressure it easily without messing up their regular build. add 2 queens, some drones, zergling pressure. AKA zergs can be greedy while keeping you from being greedy
So can Terran and Protoss.
11. easy blocking of the 3rd with burrowed lings/ol pooping creep.
12. Terran has to spend apm every few seconds to keep up with production while zerg gets to watch their army and manage every economical and productive factor from 1 hotkey (hatcheries)
Yeah, but if you're mildly efficient at paying attention to multiple things at once, it's not an issue, let alone a drawback.
13. 1 mistake for terran (not splitting in time vs zerg aoe) = the zerg floods reinforcements and overwhelms you. 1 mistake for zerg (moving out of a bad engagement) means they flood reinforcements in 17 seconds and d then push you back.
Learn to split on time, and don't overcommit to an attack if things turn bad.
14. zerg can instantly decide when to build a huge army for a timing in the blink of an eye whereas terran has to build up to that timing the whole game
...Okay. I've never seen that. I've never once seen any player, pro or otherwise, or the computer do that. Anyway, no one can decide to do anything in the game instantaneously, and then poof! it happens. They have to time everything, mind resources and expansions, and all that good stuff just like you do.
15. zerg can easily expand/drone off the back of pressure and be perfectly safe
Upgraded Marines and medivacs. Actually walling off.
Upgraded marines and medivacs, thors, battlecruisers, seeker missiles, and to a lesser, mediocre extent, vikings.
Ghosts. Tank micro. Ravens.
Thors and siege tanks.
What about them?
22. Maps are filled with TONS and TONS of open spaces where zergs can easily flood you.
And high ground that you can attack from, or wall off.
23. In line with reason 4, zergs can instantly tech swap in such a way that you can no longer counter it.
Shenanigans. You're playing as the most adaptable of the three races.
24. Zerg strength grows the longer the game goes on whilst Terran's dwindles.
Yeah, only as much as you let it.
25. Overlords are ridiculously overpowered.
They don't do anything!
They become free (almost) detection,
They don't have detection!
they can sit outside your base on elevated rocks (that you can't see unless you use a rax to float over the and waste the prod time)
Not even! Vikings!
Just look at TeamLiquids's Korhal Compound
Play other maps!
However, seeing as TeamLiquid is overflowing with Zergs it's not surprising that their maps have these Z imba qualities.
See above. Also, don't hate the player, hate the game. Or, is it possible that you're just not as skilled as you give yourself credit for? You make it sound like bronze league zerg players are crushing gold league terran players by sheer force of will. If Zerg is so imba against Terran and you can't figure out how to beat them, switch races. Or learn how to play as Terran against Zerg.
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