StarCraft® II

Kerrigan in HotS

I am a little bit worried on how Kerrigan is going to be used in HotS. I thought that the "Champion" based missions in Wings of Liberty were cool, but having Kerrigan in every single mission? Don't get me wrong, I play Zerg, and I think that full use of Kerrigan will be an interesting new feature in HotS, but I am also worried that it will take away from the game play that Starcraft players are expecting and used to. At its core, Starcraft is an RTS, not a game that involves champions. Thoughts?
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I think kerrigan will about as necessary as the mercs from WOL. You don't need to use her, but she's nice to have if you want to use her.
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Pretty sure your wrong Delta; Kerrigan's an intergral part of the game it seemed like they wanted to make her like when she was in "All In"...though it's possible she has a respawn time if she gets killed I guess if you really didn't want to have her either A) keep having her get killed off or B)leave her in some corner of the map
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Yes I know about the respawn and about her being integral and all that, but I seriously doubt you HAVE to use her all game every game unless they set it up like the hero missions in WOL or are on hard+ is what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Edit: Of course I could just be downsizing the whole thing and I'm not giving her enough credit.
Edited by subjectDelta on 8/14/2012 9:49 PM PDT
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My thoughts are that it's awesome. If you want to play what you're describing, play ladder. Campaign is the place for the devs to get creative, and I look forward to having heroes and campaign exclusive units throughout the whole thing.
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Won't Kerrigan be like used like Raynor was in WoL? Simply as the driving narrator and occasionally as the slightly more powerful 'must survive' character?
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No, she's in every mission, and she can die as many times as you want.
Also, from what I understand, the missions will be extremely difficult if you try to avoid using her. However, though she will be extremely strong, you're certainly going to be using lots of other units besides her.
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Yes I know about the respawn and about her being integral and all that, but I seriously doubt you HAVE to use her all game every game unless they set it up like the hero missions in WOL or are on hard+ is what I'm saying. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Edit: Of course I could just be downsizing the whole thing and I'm not giving her enough credit.

Yeah, I'm sure you could get through missions without using Kerrigan, but you'd just be handicapping yourself immensely since I'm guessing that in the beginning of the game, she's still the best unit available, and that by the end of the game she'll be extremely powerful and capable of swinging entire battles in your favor. Ignoring Kerrigan in HoTS will probably be like playing through WoL and not spending credits/research points on upgrades/mercs.
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Ignoring Kerrigan in HoTS will probably be like playing through WoL and not spending credits/research points on upgrades/mercs.

I did no credits on Brutal, until the last mission ; P
I'd almost say that was a good comparison, but many of the missions you would want a unit upgraded, are the missions you have to beat in order to upgrade them.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 8/15/2012 2:35 PM PDT
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Edit: Actually you what I think will happen is that she will encompass all the mercs and heros from WOL and her necessity will depend on the parameters of the mission. That makes more sense.
Edited by subjectDelta on 8/15/2012 11:35 PM PDT
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Kerrigan- My hot scout unit that just slowly kills the terran base why I mess around and grab !@#$ from map for New units
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Kerrigan in the campaign is absolutely disastrous for campaign game-play.

Think about it.

Each campaign is 'balanced' to make sure it is challenging, but not unbearable. If the level is balanced for a super unit like Kerrigan, than that logically means the rest of your units will either be weaker or the opposition will be stronger. This is the first problem...there will be too much dependences on her and this will be more of a Diablo type hack/slash game (bad/bad/bad) than a RTS build them up, find their weakness and attack game.

The other problem is that it skews the early game balance in the campaigns. If you have a strong unit early on, Blizzard will expect you to use it, which means you won't be able to choose creative builds from the ground up because you will be constantly attacked or on a pressure timer to attack.

WOL really made a mess of the campaign scene and HOTS will be worse. What made SC - BW special, was that many of the campaigns featured a large, but dumb passive AI that only sent small waves into attack you. Triggers would 'awake' certain parts of the AI. You (while outnumbered) had to use creative builds, micro and intelligence to win. That was very fun and there were often times many ways to solve each level.

WOL was terrible because most of the levels were 'pressure cooker' levels that involved no economic nor production creativity and most levels depended on one-dimensional timings that depended on merely playing the level multiple times to find out. It was stupid.

HOTS is an even bigger regression, because if you emphasis the strength of a super-hero you detract from the rest of the army and therefore the creativity and importance of macro that a regular RTS campaign should depend on.

This is what did WCIII in...it wasn't a great game, because the heroes took way too much from the tech creativity and armies in Blizzard's effort to counter-balance for the heroes.
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If the level is balanced for a super unit like Kerrigan, than that logically means the rest of your units will either be weaker or the opposition will be stronger.

"super Kerrigan" shouldn't be much stronger than an Infestor mixed with a Hydralisk.
She almost certainly won't be as strong as the heroes in the WoL campaign (ironic), because she is designed to be used in missions where you can build an army, and she is allowed to die.

WOL was terrible because most of the levels were 'pressure cooker' levels that involved no economic nor production creativity and most levels depended on one-dimensional timings that depended on merely playing the level multiple times to find out.

It didn't feel much different than the Broodwar missions. You weren't forced into building specific units to win. I've played the campaign using almost only the new unit introduced for that mission, and I've played it with a mix of units. I've heard of people using Marines the whole way through.
But as they've said, Raynor's Raiders are a small force, so they've got to get in and get out quickly or else they'd find themselves in tight situations. The swarm on the other hand, is going to be invading and taking over worlds. The HotS campaign should have a more offensive feel to it.

If you played the WoL campaign multiple times, you start to see how the events that occur actually do depend on what you do, and when. Macro didn't take a back seat, you just weren't often allowed to sit around and build up an invincible army. You didn't feel safe after just defending the first two attacks. That's good game design.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 9/2/2012 12:56 PM PDT
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"super Kerrigan" shouldn't be much stronger than an Infestor mixed with a Hydralisk.
She almost certainly won't be as strong as the heroes in the WoL campaign (ironic), because she is designed to be used in missions where you can build an army, and she is allowed to die.
I don't think this is the case. She will probably have a ton of hp and have AOE that you are utterly dependent on. If she levels up, she will become quite powerful by the end of the game which will diminish the importance of teching/workers/mining/build placement/etc...


It didn't feel much different than the Broodwar missions. You weren't forced into building specific units to win. I've played the campaign using almost only the new unit introduced for that mission, and I've played it with a mix of units. I've heard of people using Marines the whole way through.
But as they've said, Raynor's Raiders are a small force, so they've got to get in and get out quickly or else they'd find themselves in tight situations. The swarm on the other hand, is going to be invading and taking over worlds. The HotS campaign should have a more offensive feel to it.

If you played the WoL campaign multiple times, you start to see how the events that occur actually do depend on what you do, and when. Macro didn't take a back seat, you just weren't often allowed to sit around and build up an invincible army. You didn't feel safe after just defending the first two attacks. That's good game design.
But in WOL, you didn't really build from the ground up your tech and economy and rarely did you expand in a meaningful format. You were mostly handed tech/free units/heroes/mercenaries and given a countdown timer to destroy an objective. If you were lucky you had some mining and production which allowed a little sim city creativity but this was strongly de-emphasised which was a HUGE mistake. BW was so much funner because you could win doing a strategy that you wanted to try...not a strategy that the game designers forced you to use.
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Kerrigan in the campaign is absolutely disastrous for campaign game-play.

Think about it.

Each campaign is 'balanced' to make sure it is challenging, but not unbearable. If the level is balanced for a super unit like Kerrigan, than that logically means the rest of your units will either be weaker or the opposition will be stronger. This is the first problem...there will be too much dependences on her and this will be more of a Diablo type hack/slash game (bad/bad/bad) than a RTS build them up, find their weakness and attack game.

The other problem is that it skews the early game balance in the campaigns. If you have a strong unit early on, Blizzard will expect you to use it, which means you won't be able to choose creative builds from the ground up because you will be constantly attacked or on a pressure timer to attack.

WOL really made a mess of the campaign scene and HOTS will be worse. What made SC - BW special, was that many of the campaigns featured a large, but dumb passive AI that only sent small waves into attack you. Triggers would 'awake' certain parts of the AI. You (while outnumbered) had to use creative builds, micro and intelligence to win. That was very fun and there were often times many ways to solve each level.

WOL was terrible because most of the levels were 'pressure cooker' levels that involved no economic nor production creativity and most levels depended on one-dimensional timings that depended on merely playing the level multiple times to find out. It was stupid.

HOTS is an even bigger regression, because if you emphasis the strength of a super-hero you detract from the rest of the army and therefore the creativity and importance of macro that a regular RTS campaign should depend on.

This is what did WCIII in...it wasn't a great game, because the heroes took way too much from the tech creativity and armies in Blizzard's effort to counter-balance for the heroes.


You have yet to beat the campaign on brutal. Your entire rant is now useless and stupid. Come back after you've played it on brutal.

After completing the campaign on brutal, you will realize that 80% of the stuff that you just wrote was absolutely wrong.

-Thanks!
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I don't think this is the case. She will probably have a ton of hp and have AOE that you are utterly dependent on. If she levels up, she will become quite powerful by the end of the game which will diminish the importance of teching/workers/mining/build placement/etc...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110531120031/starcraft/images/a/a4/SarahKerrigan_HotS_Game2.jpg
Ok, fine, half an Ultralisk mixed with an Infestor. Her spells are stuff like increasing the damage an enemy receives by three. Sounds like something that is going to be useless unless you have a swarm. Afraid of her leveling up? I've got news for you. In WoL, your army 'leveled up' when you chose to unlock mercenaries, upgrades, and tech.

But in WOL, you didn't really build from the ground up your tech and economy and rarely did you expand in a meaningful format.

Oh yeah, since you built from the ground up in every mission of BW. Go back and play BW. Then, sure, play WoL on Brutal.
Afraid of pressure? I distinctly remember a BW mission where a wave of units and an Ultralisk hero would come at you every couple of minutes.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 9/3/2012 12:28 AM PDT
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@FungalGrowth: Dear God. A person who probably went partway through the casual campaign.
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News-freaking-flash, ladies and gentlement doomsayers.

Blizzard made Warcraft III.

Warcraft III was a game where you had a hero (or two, and sometimes three) hero each mission.

Heroes were powerful, their abilities changed the course of fights. But generally speaking, they were just another "big" unit, like a thor, battlecruiser, ultralisk or carrier. They don't win maps all on their lonesome.

Also, there were some missions in Brood War were you controlled Kerrigan. Was she the only unit you needed to win the missions? Pretty sure she wasn't.

What ever happened to make people start thinking that nobody but themselves can conceive of the obvious problems with making design choices that the designers never made?
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I agree with Draken, its just going to be like Warcraft 3 format. Blizzard did a good job with the W3 campaign, so there's nothing to worry about.
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08/15/2012 10:03 AMPosted by Nano
Won't Kerrigan be like used like Raynor was in WoL? Simply as the driving narrator and occasionally as the slightly more powerful 'must survive' character?


no, she cannot die, if she takes fatal damage she burrows to the nearest hatchery
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