StarCraft® II

Swarm Hosts

Posts: 72
"The idea behind its current design was to give zerg players their own siege unit, but make sure it functioned in a different manner to the siege tank or colossus."

Wasn't the Broodlord's job supposed to be the Zerg siege unit, and how it's different from the rest? And not OP.

-Discuss
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Posts: 109
While brood lord is a siege unit it is more of a zerg capital ship since it arrives late game, they gave protoss tempest when they already had colusi so i see no favoritism here on Blizz's part.

It is essentially a more zergy lurker, it burrows and attacks only while burrowed, it offers support for our zerg army and is a zerg version of a siege unit. Lurker was not op in BW so i doubt the SH will be overpowered in HOTS.
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Posts: 35
I like the Swarm Host idea, but in the current CUSTOM hots the Swarm Host is incredibly OP. You make like 10+ and there is nothing that can stop you. Make a couple Hydras and an Overseer to stop Observers and you can siege and destroy anything. 10+ Swarm Hosts means 20+ Locusts, which deal more damage then Hydras. I'm serious, Swarm Hosts are ridiculously OP.
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Posts: 71
I agree
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Posts: 72
I too have played the HOTS custom map, and I will agree that Locust are incredibly OP, when 8 Swarmhosts can kill 20+ zealots in one wave of locust, you know something is wrong. Another problem is the fact that as you said, hydras and an overseer guarding the swarm hosts makes them invulnerable.
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Posts: 11,116
I too have played the HOTS custom map, and I will agree that Locust are incredibly OP, when 8 Swarmhosts can kill 20+ zealots in one wave of locust, you know something is wrong. Another problem is the fact that as you said, hydras and an overseer guarding the swarm hosts makes them invulnerable.

What? When I played the HotS custom map, I chased the Overseers away with some Phoenix between Locust waves, used an Oracle to cloak my army, then a-moved to their base and won.
Oh yeah, my ground army was pure Chargelot.

Then there was the time where I waited for the Locusts to reach my third Nexus, then I cloaked it and attacked the Swarm Hosts from the side with my army and a few Observers.

There was another time I built a few Collosi and just a-moved, killing everything.

Another time I took the center of the map. The Swarm Hosts were caught unburrowed when I blinked onto them. They died.

These were against Gold/Platinum Zerg, maybe a few Diamond, so I'm betting it works in Bronze too.

You want to know how it is different from the Broodlord? It spawns units always, no matter what. So rather than needing to be within ten range of a target, they can be up to about thirty range away (though Locusts will do less damage over their life if they are walking a long distance). Also, Broodlings last eight seconds, Locust last fifteen, twenty-five with the upgrade, so it's possible to actually command them.
While Locusts have more dps, health, and lifespan than Broodlings, they are not without their disadvantages.
They are slower; they don't spawn at the target; there is no damage from the Swarm Host, like there is from the Broodlord; can't attack up cliffs; Swarm Hosts have less health than Broodlord; Swarm Hosts must be deployed (burrowed); While Burrowing is good, flying has its own, different advantages.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 8/27/2012 4:46 PM PDT
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Posts: 2,822
Swarm Hosts, though amazing, do have their weaknesses:
- They take forever to spawn units, so if someone attacks between spawning times, they will destroy everything, and every Swarm Hosts is less Roaches or Zerglings.
- Locusts do have great dps, but not much health, so AoE will annihilate them.
- Their range is so poor you can kite them forever.
This doesn't make Swarm Hosts useless, it just makes them not invincible.

Brood Lords are very different then Swarm Hosts, for these reasons:
- BL attacks spawns Broodlings, SH spawn Locusts to attack.
- SH must plant themselves to attack. BL don't, but are slower then the SH.
- BL fly, giving cliff advantages. SH are ground based, but Locusts can hit air.
- BL have 9.5 range, vs the approximate 30 range of the SH with upgrades.
- SH come out at Lair tech, while BL come out around Hive tech.
- BL have a 2 step spawning process, having to be made from Corruptors.
- SH lose damage with range. BL deal double damage with time.
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Posts: 2,571
08/27/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Rikkmaery
I too have played the HOTS custom map, and I will agree that Locust are incredibly OP, when 8 Swarmhosts can kill 20+ zealots in one wave of locust, you know something is wrong. Another problem is the fact that as you said, hydras and an overseer guarding the swarm hosts makes them invulnerable.


I call bull!@#$

asside from the fact that locust move the same speed as high templar (so they should never be able to kill something that moves unless you let them)

8 swarm hosts is 16 locust, each locust has the exact same damage output as a zealot, but only 65 health. 2 range is not a large range advantage, it works out to one salvo, enouph to kill one zealot and hurt another assuming perfect focus fire and avoiding overkill (neither of which are likely). I simply cannot beleive 16 locust can kill 20+ zealots. The only possible way is if you were hugely out upgraded, or put your zealots on a move comand so they just walked through the firepower without fighting.
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Posts: 1,062
There is something to consider with the custom map versus the official version.

The Swarm Host will only produce 2 locust at a time if memory serves. The alpha build is intended to make them feel strong and a tad OP that way people use them. It is Blizzard's incentive to experiment with the new units, they'll receive proper adjustments for the beta and post-launch.
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Posts: 357
Ive been watching the HD casts of the HOTS Arcade championship in Europe. Teams like Acer and Empire are in on the tourney and so it isnt really a joke. Every game that Swarm HOsts are used in, the Zerg player loses because of them. I know this is counter-intuitive; a lot of people (myself included) thought the Swarm Host would be a VERY strong unit....... but honestly, it looks VERY weak.
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Posts: 11,116
I know this is counter-intuitive; a lot of people (myself included) thought the Swarm Host would be a VERY strong unit....... but honestly, it looks VERY weak.

I think they should be thought of as a weaker Siege Tank with longer range. If people are thinking you will just build a ton of them and win with massive amounts of Locust, they've probably been misled.
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Posts: 1,235
I know this is counter-intuitive; a lot of people (myself included) thought the Swarm Host would be a VERY strong unit....... but honestly, it looks VERY weak.

I think they should be thought of as a weaker Siege Tank with longer range. If people are thinking you will just build a ton of them and win with massive amounts of Locust, they've probably been misled.


initial reactions from alphas beg to differ.
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Posts: 11,116
initial reactions from alphas beg to differ.

What reactions?
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Posts: 196
i personally like the melee version of the locust

my reason is because they had more life and more armor, granted they were still slow but they could make tanks deal damage to their own units whatever they were. there could've been an upgrade to make them faster as well. now they could have still made it attack air units by having the locust fly up to the air unit and deal melee damage to it.

and this is me goin off on a tangent but with the name "locusts" wouldnt you assume it could fly? or maybe a cliff jump or flight upgrade in place of longer life? bc honestly if locust die in about 2.3 sec from a siege hit or something whats the point of longer lifespan?
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08/30/2012 10:21 PMPosted by Graves
my reason is because they had more life and more armor, granted they were still slow but they could make tanks deal damage to their own units whatever they were. there could've been an upgrade to make them faster as well. now they could have still made it attack air units by having the locust fly up to the air unit and deal melee damage to it.


The Ranged version is better because it can hit air, and isn't uber durable. This version still can take 2 shots from a tank, and deal loads of damage.

08/30/2012 10:21 PMPosted by Graves
and this is me goin off on a tangent but with the name "locusts" wouldnt you assume it could fly? or maybe a cliff jump or flight upgrade in place of longer life? bc honestly if locust die in about 2.3 sec from a siege hit or something whats the point of longer lifespan?


A Cliff jump would be fine, but flying isn't going to work. Randomly flying into the air upon birth is funny, but weird. I wouldn't mind a Raptor-esqe leap into the enemy forces.
The reason they have long lifespan is for long range. The Swarm Host has 30 range, with it's DPS decreasing over range due to less time to kill stuff when there. But you can siege a base out of Tank range, and slowly wear them down. Siege Tanks can't kill Locust's very fast.
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Posts: 196
08/30/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Martiny
The Ranged version is better because it can hit air, and isn't uber durable. This version still can take 2 shots from a tank, and deal loads of damage.


i remeber seeing the newer ranged ones taking like one tank shot and dying, but i do remember the melee one just being tougher over all.

08/30/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Martiny
A Cliff jump would be fine, but flying isn't going to work. Randomly flying into the air upon birth is funny, but weird. I wouldn't mind a Raptor-esqe leap into the enemy forces.


i mean like being born on the ground for a second but if any air units were attacking it would fly up and act like a flying zergling of sorts. and a jump would be nice if they made it a melee unit again buuut i doubt it. that cliff jump thing would be nice foe locusts imma vouch for that and see if blizzard would consider it.
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Posts: 345
I like the idea a lot because it's nothing like other siege unit, it creates timing because of the slow production of locus : Your army is systematically more strong when locus comes in iwich give you time to attack because the locus acts as a meat sheild!!!! Plus you can micro the locus, so it's a MICRO SIEGE UNIT!!! + 1 BLIZZ
Edited by StatusZERO on 9/1/2012 3:34 PM PDT
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Posts: 369
08/29/2012 11:07 PMPosted by Anderson
Ive been watching the HD casts of the HOTS Arcade championship in Europe. Teams like Acer and Empire are in on the tourney and so it isnt really a joke. Every game that Swarm HOsts are used in, the Zerg player loses because of them. I know this is counter-intuitive; a lot of people (myself included) thought the Swarm Host would be a VERY strong unit....... but honestly, it looks VERY weak.


This is my reaction thus far as well. After watching that recent HOTS tourney HDStarcraft has been casting Swarm Hosts and even Vipers seem rather useless.
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Posts: 72
Can we get back on topic on how the Broodlord somehow isnt a siege unit?
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Posts: 2,822
08/31/2012 09:24 PMPosted by Graves
i remeber seeing the newer ranged ones taking like one tank shot and dying, but i do remember the melee one just being tougher over all.


That was due to 3 Tanks shooting at once. No Light unit can take 3 rounds from a Siege Tank. A Zergling can take one, is melee, only hits ground, and still takes 50 mins and supply to get. An AA, Hardy, Light unit is an all around good free unit.
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