StarCraft® II

so funny how terrans always adapted to any nerff or buffs that other race, but when it comes to zerg or protoss. they dont nerff them, they just buff them and wait till terrans adapted. once we adapted. Terrans get more nerfs ..never Ending cycle. thats is why i stoped playing. This is so anoying that blizzard mostly focusing on Pros. If you want this game to be just for E-sport

then Make a similar game Just for E-sport.

and let the general public enjoy Sc2 like we did Enjoy SC1 with out any Pro or E-sport revolving around the game

terrans are overpowered because small clusters of units are extremely effective. 8 marines + 1 medivac = requires a lot more to stop

that said even if players are winning games vs zerg, is it because of a money vortex in pvz. or because zerg didn't fungal well enough in tvz.

So upcoming raven nerfs and more zerg buffs, is that what I should take away from this? I love how Blizz bases balance changes off a tournament where the best Korean professional (MVP) surprised foreigners with a new lategame style, that won't work for 99.99% of other Terran players because they lack the skill, and won't work aganst 99.99% of Zerg opponents because all Zerg has to do is scout for it. But yeah, as long as Taeja and MVP keep winning, Terran is balanced.

Interesting, though I still feel as if these changes would be beneficial at the levels below the highest level.

so funny how terrans always adapted to any nerff or buffs that other race, but when it comes to zerg or protoss. they dont nerff them, they just buff them and wait till terrans adapted. once we adapted. Terrans get more nerfs ..never Ending cycle. thats is why i stoped playing. This is so anoying that blizzard mostly focusing on Pros. If you want this game to be just for E-sport

then Make a similar game Just for E-sport.

and let the general public enjoy Sc2 like we did Enjoy SC1 with out any Pro or E-sport revolving around the game

Could it have anything to do with the fact that terran needed nerfs because of their abnormal win ratio before the nerfs?

Let's also not forget multiple nerfs on infestors, KA for high templars gone, and void ray nerfs.

08/31/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Achilles

So upcoming raven nerfs and more zerg buffs, is that what I should take away from this? I love how Blizz bases balance changes off a tournament where the best Korean professional (MVP) suprised foreigners with a new lategame style, that won't work for 99.99% of other Terran players because they lack the skill, and won't work aganst 99.99% of Zerg opponents because all Zerg has to do is scout for it. But yeah, as long as Taeja and MVP keep winning, Terran is balanced.

if you remove the best terran [MVP] and the best zerg [Nerchio] from IEM; terran still has a 56% winrate.

If it wasnt for nerchio, T would have had an over 70% winrate at that event.

so stop pretending that T is the only race that has an amazing player buffering up the winrates

08/31/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Scurvy

Interesting, though I still feel as if these changes would be beneficial at the levels below the highest level.

the solution to balance at low levels is to improve the quality of your play.

08/31/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Achilles

So upcoming raven nerfs and more zerg buffs, is that what I should take away from this? I love how Blizz bases balance changes off a tournament where the best Korean professional (MVP) suprised foreigners with a new lategame style, that won't work for 99.99% of other Terran players because they lack the skill, and won't work aganst 99.99% of Zerg opponents because all Zerg has to do is scout for it. But yeah, as long as Taeja and MVP keep winning, Terran is balanced.

What upcoming nerfs on ravens / buffs for zerg?

Sources pleases?

so funny how terrans always adapted to any nerff or buffs that other race, but when it comes to zerg or protoss. they dont nerff them, they just buff them and wait till terrans adapted. once we adapted. Terrans get more nerfs ..never Ending cycle. thats is why i stoped playing. This is so anoying that blizzard mostly focusing on Pros. If you want this game to be just for E-sport

then Make a similar game Just for E-sport.

and let the general public enjoy Sc2 like we did Enjoy SC1 with out any Pro or E-sport revolving around the game

Balance changes dont effect silvers

08/31/2012 09:19 AMPosted by Narkamun

and let the general public enjoy Sc2 like we did Enjoy SC1 with out any Pro or E-sport revolving around the game

Starcraft was so much harder for the general public. Good luck just macroing, but then all the problems that come with micro with limited control groups. I would say starcraft 2 is way more accessible to the general public while keeping micro and mechanics at high enough levels that pros do not hit the skill ceilings, although some units could you some work to be less A-movey.

A few games of Ravens does not demonstrate that the Raven fulfills its role well. I would have to say MVP had taken a lead so he was already ahead before the final battle. The fact that Ravens are this underutilized that it is shocking to see them shows they need adjustments to be viable.

Also to quote IEM that Zerg is not overpowered when they were in 3 of 4 of the top places seems a bit silly. Also that those Zergs were no where near the skill level of many of the Korean players that they took wins off tells you something.

What upcoming nerfs on ravens / buffs for zerg?

Sources pleases?

lol, are you really that dense Greatbox? Or do you simply not understand what a question mark means.

From the call to action:

"Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors."

Has this changed? Blizzard admitted that they are hard to use even at the highest level, why keep them hard to use? Even if terrans are doing better, it doesn't change the fact that people are struggling to use ravens.

If the meta-game is shifitng, not implementing the creep tumor nerf makes sense, though. The raven speed buff may actually make the creep tumor nerf unnecessary.

So Blizzard got lazy and doesn't want to fix balance?

08/31/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Scurvy

Interesting, though I still feel as if these changes would be beneficial at the levels below the highest level.

the solution to balance at low levels is to improve the quality of your play.

You misunderstood me, I should have been more clear. I meant at the level of play just below the tip-top pros, such as MVP. I am not making this claim in regards to ladder players.

I'm going to keep this short as I am on my phone.

My suggestions:

-Make Snipe do 30 (+20 Psionic). This allows 1-shotting Banelings and makes Snipe better against Broodlords without making them mass-and-spam-click-to-victory.
-Decrease Reaper build time by 5 seconds.

-Decrease Carrier build time by 10 seconds.
-Decrease Void Ray charge up time by 1-2 seconds and increase the time the charge lasts by 1-2 seconds.

-Increase Hydralisk base move speed to 2.5-2.75.
-Make ground Carapace upgrades affect Nydus Worm heads or decrease the cost of either the heads or the Nydus Network building.

So Mvp, one of the if not the best player in the world, wins vs random foreigners so TvZ is ok? Is that a joke? If anything those games showed how broken TvZ is as those guys were OBVIOUSLY far inferior players yet stayed in games they shouldn't have been able to.

If David Kim says the game is balanced, then it's probably balanced...he has a lot of statistics that we don't.

Nonetheless, a balanced game is not a good game. Watching MMAvZ before the patch was one of the most fun things in the game...all sorts of crazy multipronged agression and mindgames. Now, maybe Terran is doing fine, but the way they win is boring. Watching two players that can't move out until the 15 minute mark is boring. Then it comes down to one battle, and one set of HSM/fungal/splitting, and the game is over.

Even during the era of ghost OPness was a better lategame than this. That at least required lots of APM for drops, nukes, whatever, rather than turtling and massing ravens.

08/31/2012 09:36 AMPosted by gommybear

So Mvp, one of the if not the best player in the world, wins vs random foreigners so TvZ is ok? Is that a joke? If anything those games showed how broken TvZ is as those guys were OBVIOUSLY far inferior players yet stayed in games they shouldn't have been able to.

How exactly are you justifying this type of argument?

It is true that MVP or Taeja are possibly two of the best terran players in the world. But there are other competitors in sc2 that clearly belong on the same stage as their korean counterparts.

In round robin portions of several tourneys, there were enough upset victories by foreign players where they showed better army, economy and macro management than some of the korean players.

If your argument is that the zerg players didn't know what they were doing, you must qualify your assertions. Is it their epm / apm that makes them bad players? Is it their strategic response to what terran is doing that makes them bad players? Are they simply not reading their timing right?

Some random nobody saying that pro players are riding on imbalance doesn't make mean anything.