StarCraft® II

Gateway vs Warpgate, Blizzard listen

What is the issue on Warpgates and Gateways? Once you research warp gates, not only do you build units more quickly, but anywhere where there is power. 99.9% of the time, there is no reason to go back to gateways. This is a bad functionality when compared to anything else you can do in the game.

If, for example, a protoss opens with a very aggressive opener then falls back to expand:
(advantage) He has more units early on
(disadvantage) He has later macro/tech

^This is the kind of stuff that makes Starcraft exciting. It's the fact that when you do one thing, or open one different way, you get something and you lose something.

If you make a 10 cannons at every base to defend mutalisk harass:
(advantage) You're far more secure against mutas
(disadvantage) You're way behind on minerals because of the investment

Smart players eventually find balance between situations where you get one thing or the other. For example, the old TvZ opener (before queen buff) where the Terran expands and harasses with 4 hellions- the terran gets to grab a quick expansion while putting on early pressure. Great! This is what makes one opener better than the other.

But this is not the case with warp gates. To reiterate, there's no advantage to using gateways over warpgates. It's like having marines and supermarines that come from a barracks, and they both cost the same except that the supermarines do 2x the damage.

If I was to 3gate expand with no warpgates:
(disadvantage) My units come out slower
(disadvantage) My units cant come out anywhere where there is power.

Do you see the problem? Warp gates are meant to be special because "ooh you can warp in anywhere" but there HAS to be some kind of disadvantage to it. Almost anything you do in starcraft has an advantage and a disadvantage, even if they are minor, but warp gates lack this function, thus making the gateway absolutely useless, and thus just being a double disadvantage.

Another problem with warp gates is that the whole concept of defender's advantage is completely nullified. Both zerg and terran have "home advantage" in many scenarios. For example, the guy in the zerg's base can be surprised by a huge batch of lings and take out the attack, or terran has bunkers at home which he can repair. These are advantages that these races most likely wouldn't have on the opponent's front doorstep. Now protoss, has nearly the exact same advantages as if they were to warp in at the enemy's doorstep or at their own doorstep. So many games, especially RTS's, have this concept of "defender's advantage" (heck, even Tug of Wars have a defender's advantage when you think about it). Warpgates nullify this, and gateways have the potential to fix this!

My suggestion to fix? Consider lowering the build time of gateway units or raising warp gate units' cooldowns to the point that protoss players feel that there exists a reason to switch back to a gateway rather than a warp gate I know that this would be a pain in the butt to balance, but give it a try:

(advantage) My units build faster!
(disadvantage) My units only come out through the gateway.

EDIT: Reddit thread http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/zr1u4/gateways_vs_warpgates/
Edited by oVi on 9/11/2012 10:25 PM PDT
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If you want them to actually make Gateways useful after WG research then you need units that are Warped-in to be weaker.

Why do I care about production cooldown when I'm on 2+ bases when I can just put down another 4 Warpates, as Protoss really don't care about minerals?

With that said, there needs to be a lot of testing to "nerf Warpgate, Buff Gateway Units"

I really don't see an issue with Warpgate just being flat out better than Gateway, however. It's an upgrade, just let it be. I guess it will be convincing if they just removed the revert to Gateway button

Almost anything you do in starcraft has an advantage and a disadvantage

There's no downside to weapon/armor/shield upgrades or any kind of research past their initial investment. Warpgates are no different.
Edited by Omega on 9/11/2012 9:42 PM PDT
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I've just always thought that yes, Blizzard did have some kind of idea about allowing a warp gate to be reverted back to it's original status.

I'm just saying that 1) this has potential in some really cool play early-mid game, when timings are so important, etc. and 2) again, there's no disadvantage to using warpgates over gateways, which is a disturbance to the general flow of advantage/disadvantage
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Almost anything you do in starcraft has an advantage and a disadvantage

There's no downside to weapon/armor/shield upgrades or any kind of research past their initial investment. Warpgates are no different.


Although I agree with you, it's not like once you upgrade +1 weapon upgrade you have the option to choose building either +1 zealots or +0 zealots. Blizzard leaving in the option to revert back to something bad (like warpgate -> gateway) just doesn't make any sense unless there was some kind of advantage to using gateways, which there isn't.
Edited by oVi on 9/11/2012 9:49 PM PDT
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Which is why I think they should just remove the Gateway Button from Warpgate.
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Yeah sure.......... Remove the only good thing protoss has just in case they may be at equal footing with other two races.
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it's there so you can set rally points
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09/14/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Cancer
Yeah sure.......... Remove the only good thing protoss has just in case they may be at equal footing with other two races.

iam a zerg...this
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The problem with what you are saying is this, every decision has a disadvantage in starcraft, but the specific upgrades have no disadvantage. What you are saying, when related to terran or zerg is, let a terran chose not to have an orbital after he makes one because he cant have a disadvantage with it yet or let the zerg revert from lair tech because he can make better units. You don't follow logic with your "proving" statements.
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There is a disadvantage, toss units warping in take double damage. If the toss has bad positioning you can cancel the warp-in by destroying the power source (i dont think the gate cooldown resets but they do get the resources back, no?), or destroy the units outright much faster than any gateway units.

Its a small disadvantage that isnt seen very often (warping-in units have low priority when a-moving, enemy units will attack buildings first from my experience), but its there
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What about having chronoboosts stack on gateways after warpgate has been researched? The first chronoboost has build time increase by 50%, the second 75%, the third 87.5%?
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I would make gateways better after warp-gate research not make warp-gates worse. just increase build time by 25% then gate-ways have a better over time effect and warp gates have a right now time effect.
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