Topic
Seems Things Are The Same
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When I decided to take a break nearly two months ago, I had high hopes of change.
I've been watching streamers to catchup on the meta-game. It doesn't appear that there is really a meta. Zergs still have free will at any point in the game. I have played right at 10 games this week. Almost all TvZ. (Customs) I know if all the people playing Customs are Zerg... ladder is still Zergs. One guy had 70 Drones by 10 minutes. I killed 20 Drones within the first 10 minutes of the game and he was able to re-drone after defending. He had 4 bases with 70+ Drones, fully saturated at 11 minutes. I was trying to establish my 3rd... and couldn't. He had an endless income and was very good with his injects. What lead up to me taking a break? This: http://imgur.com/BOkKm Three months after that match, it's exactly the same. I'm not meaning to QQ, but my Zerg opponents don't actually do anything other than S+D and I can't punish it. Maybe I just don't understand Terran after over 2 years. I really don't understand how Zergs magically became so good all at once. I was Top 25 Diamond most of the season, yet my Zerg opponents would be Gold/Plat and "Evenly Matched." It's possible to pull of a win if I can make it to the late game. Usually requires two reactored Starports and a ton of Rax with Tech Labs. (If Broods fail, they'll just pop 15 Ultras with a ton of Lings/Blings) Zergs are guaranteed an good income and add the fast tech switching... uphill battle my friends... up hill. Never miss a production cycle or you'll just get overwhelmed with Broodlings/Zerglings/Banelings. Terran has to react. Not Zerg. Any insight? |
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Well, the first thing I would suggest looking at is just how you approach the matchup mentally. While your frustrations are not even close to the level of rampant QQ many people on these forums display, letting your frustrations dig at you is going to be detrimental to your ability to react/pressure/make decisions effectively. Some of the things I try to do to get rid of frustration is go watch some sick pro replays, or I save a game or two where I play way better than normal to remind myself of how good I can be. The thing about strategy games is that up to a certain point, it's all on you. Sure, some of the choices you make in builds/tactics can force certain reactions out of your opponents, but at the end of the day, the only one you can control is yourself. Remember that.
On the "builds/strategy/gameplay" side of things, I think it's worth noting that a Zerg who drones to 70+ in 10 minutes has ZERO ability to pressure you back in that time-frame. How quickly are you taking your third? It's very possible in TvZ to start your own third base by 5:00 in response to a quick third from Zerg, and go into either bio or mech from there. Because he's droning that hard (remember to check the third base once it finishes to see saturation - he could be just using it for production in a 8:30 Roach/Baneling all-in), anything that disrupts his droning is good. Banshee/Hellion forces Spines, Spores and Queens at the very least, probably Roach/Zergling depending on your commitment. Every Spine/Spore is a Drone that ISN'T mining anymore, which is good for you (as long as you don't waste your units). Zerg MUST react to something like Banshee/Hellion. Even if you go for a bio Stim/Shields attack with Hellions and Medivacs they HAVE to build something to survive. If that attack hits and they don't have Banelings, a large amount of Roaches, or a ton of Spines, they instantly die. Ergo, if they scout the possibility of that, or even seen the 9-ish minute move-out, they cannot continue to Drone. If you get to their front, kill a few Creep Tumours, and suddenly see that 16 Banelings and some Zerglings are waiting next to 2 Spines at the top of the ramp, GO HOME. You've forced at least 16 Drones to not be made, plus made him spend ALL of the gas he was banking for whatever purpose. Mission accomplished. Keep building infrastructure back home, and proceed to fortify your third. You can now start things like drops, double tank production, Turret rings, etc. Pull his units back to defensive positions with a drop, and then take the center with your bio/tank force. TvZ can be difficult if you believe that Zerg is invulnerable to pressure, but "pressure" is such a nebulous word that we forget it doesn't have to be an attack that actually engages in battle. Move-outs and harassment necessitate things on behalf of the Zerg player which automatically cuts into economy. Just make sure you're keeping up on your own and getting your infrastructure ready for the inevitable Hive-tech. |
QFT This is pretty key to understanding TvZ. |
I agree completely. I know not to enter the game with that mindset. I practiced a bit last night with a Masters Zerg in Peep-Mode. I'm not sure how serious he was playing, but I was able to take one macro game off of him. He even all-inned with Drones/Queens/Roaches/Infestors. (appeared to be a max 200/200 army) I was able to hold for the victory. Next round we had I lost to the same type of play because I went for Ravens. :( Very good TvZ practice for me. Each game made it to 25+ minutes. I'll keep tinkering with the Raven build... I had only two HSM when he attacked. I think building defensive and starting early Ravens may be better than building them at ~16 minutes. |
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It would help if you actually got good at the game then maybe you can analyse things
I stopped reading here this is just silly QQ harder either play the game or not nobody cares what you think. |
Uncalled for, my friend. This OP is nothing compared to the kinds of rampant, error-filled, hate-driven QQ the forums see too much of on a daily basis. The OP requested insight specifically into TvZ, so would you care to contribute? If you're just here to BM other players, well, I can't say anything that's going to convince you to stop, but...
...when it comes to relative skill of the leagues/modes and the ability to analyze. We're all getting better as best we can, so calm down and don't worry about insulting other people - it's not productive at all, for them or you. |
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Edited by Fulgore on 9/23/12 6:13 PM (PDT)
It would help if you actually got good at the game then maybe you can analyse things I was thinking the same. I decided not to respond. His response is no different than the one or two sentence QQers posting constantly. If you're just going to replay with nonsense, why even respond? To clarify what I meant when I said, "Zergs have free will at any point: The games I have played, my Zerg opponents have been able to play very gimmicky, but still come out on top if I defend. I'm not saying that I believe the game is unbalanced and QQ, QQ, QQ. I'm saying that Zergs have free will and don't have to build as specific as Terran. If I don't open a certain way vs their greedy play, I can lose. If they don't open a certain way, they can defend and catch-up much easier. Edit: For example... One game I didn't catch the fast third before 5 minutes. Yet, someone told me "l2p, you should've had your 3rd by 5:00 if you scout early 3rd from Zerg." How does that help other players? If you miss the scout and see it say... at 6:00... Telling someone to "l2p" is doing nothing for the community. What could have done to macro equally with the Zerg? (If I opened 16CC and didn't immediately drop my 3rd) That's a start. |
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If you made diamond with Terran then you're a good player, despite the elitist views on the forums that only GM and top master are "good".
If you're looking to let off steam on difficulties, the forum unfortunately isn't the best place to do it. You might be better off asking specific strategy or tactical questions so as not to invite the trolls and witch-hunters. Personally, I'm beginning to see SC2 as over-oriented toward "pro-gamers" and the esports scene. It's pretty demanding, definitely not for the casuals out there. |
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Edited by QoGxManifesT on 9/24/12 3:36 PM (PDT)
The problem is I don't QQ you are bad and complain thats all you are good for. How about you actually play the game then wasting your time here trying to get feedback on your QQ with other terrible players. All you are doing is complaining about Zerg that's basically all I read in first couple of sentences which just shows how bad you are. Complaining about a race in NA diamond brilliant you sure do matter. Hey I have an idea post this to TL lets see how far that goes there is a reason why this garbage is allowed here rather then TL. |
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Edited by QoGxManifesT on 9/24/12 3:41 PM (PDT)
It would help if you actually got good at the game then maybe you can analyse things I wasn't bashing his league just for fun I was bashing him because he just literally QQed in the first couple of sentences.
Like seriously who says this? Oh I know terrible players. If anyone actually wants help with there game they post the replay and ask for help nobody posts this garbage except in BNET of course.
Just because you say this doesn't mean it's not QQ this is seriously pathetic. |
Okay, I get that, but what good does 'bashing him' do you, me, or anybody? Doesn't the pointless name-calling because of league etc. get people warnings or temp bans on TL, which you advocate? Just because someone says something untrue, inaccurate, or unproductive doesn't give you the right to go all ad hominem on them (yes, I know it's not a technically accurate application of that term, but the sense of aggression that comes with it seems to fit). What would you say about TvZ, in that case, QoGxManifest? Clearly you disagree with the OP's original statements (like I do), so what can you say that might help in altering someone's mindset of "X is OP, X race has it much easier than me"? The real problem is the mindset, not the strategy (although strategy can always be improved and tinkered with). You don't change mindset with BM, rudeness, or sarcasm. |
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I know this isn't related to TvZ, but...
Been practicing a bit. I beat a mid-Masters Terran tonight when I started testing my stream. He was raging about how he didn't understand where I was getting my income. I tried to explain after the match that I was ahead the entire game on upgrades and we were constantly sniping each others bases... So... Yea... Was a GG, though if anyone cares to watch. (Btw, I just edited that overlay today. It was a free one from /r/starcraft that was too plain.) Please critique my TvT if you wish. I was tested out the use of Ravens with my army. Trying to do this in all matchups. (I got a few HSM hits in this game) http://www.twitch.tv/whoppysc/b/333686222 I'll keep up the practice and update here if I have any questions about any matchup. No need to create multiple threads. |
