StarCraft® II

So who said Ravens are bad?

Posts: 180
lol. They're flying infestors with Detection...
The only real difference is they don't have and AoE DoT... instead they have a missile that does not miss and does 100 splash damage...

I have a challenge for you Terran players: use the Raven like it's the, like Zerg players use their Infestor, in you late game army... I PROMISE good results.
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Posts: 180
TROLL ME IF YOU WANT!!! ur the one missing out.
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Posts: 180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtCF9oUu0io
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Posts: 382
its very possible for a seeker missile to miss. theres even an achievement for dodging one. I wouldnt reccommend ravens against protoss as feedbacks will kill you.
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Posts: 2,083
lol. They're flying infestors with Detection...
The only real difference is they don't have and AoE DoT... instead they have a missile that does not miss and does 100 splash damage...

I have a challenge for you Terran players: use the Raven like it's the, like Zerg players use their Infestor, in you late game army... I PROMISE good results.

Ravens are a lot harder to use. Unless pdd can use 50 energy to block spells like fungal and feedback, there is no way ravens can do anything with 7 range spells vs well placed infestors/fungal. The best way ravens can work is if ghosts are made to cancel out spellcastors. Even then that is a huge investment in both ravens/ghosts plus a basic army to go with it. The only problem with ghost raven is upgrades. Raven upgrades are meh. Just armor basically if you go seeker. But in order to use ghosts 3-3 your ground force must be bio. Bcs may come but not until 5-6 bases.

Different from broodlord infestor. Infestors does not need upgrades besides from armor. But armor is already researched by default for lings and ultras. Broodlord broodlings also benefit from ground upgrades. For zerg their upgrades work a lot more in sync. Ravens are viable but is harder to use. Transitioning to ravens is like transitioning to broodlords. You must buy yourself a lot of time and resources.

A lot harder than infestors.
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Posts: 180
LOL no they are not that hard to use... i'll gladly take the raven over the infestor.

no to mention you are both silver.
Edited by Oxygen on 10/17/2012 6:09 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,059
No one thinks ravens are bad, but it's difficult and spendy to get the production on place, plus, they need lots of upgrades.
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Posts: 4,464
Ravens are bad.

That video is mostly ravens killing burrowed swarm hosts that can't even hit air and had no support. How does that prove ravens are good? Most of the scenes seem like the opponent is AFK. Like the one with the small group of infestors, they could have just fungaled the ravens to death before they ever got in range to launch seeker missile. And since when do competent Protoss use storm vs battlecruisers instead of feedback? Feedbacks can one shot ravens, so that just makes even dumber to use storm. Near the end PFs were doing all the work while it took forever for the ravens to get in position and when they finally did all they did was kill some corruptors that weren't even doing anything anyway.

The only viable role ravens have besides detection is killing clumped up broodlords. As when Zergs finally stop refusing to split, ravens won't be doing anything significant vs broodlords.

The only thing Ravens and infestors have in common is that they both have spells that spawn "units". And as far as that goes, auto turrets suck major D and infested terrans are quite good.
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Posts: 2,083
LOL no they are not that hard to use... i'll gladly take the raven over the infestor.

no to mention you are both silver.

Lol I am in gold stupid profile viewing. Ravens aren't bad. Just takes a lot for investment and harder to use. 9 range spells vs 7. Nice try.
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Posts: 4,464
10/17/2012 08:56 PMPosted by Snafu
That's my video and my play.


I wasn't critiquing your play.

10/17/2012 08:56 PMPosted by Snafu
Ravens are awesome.


Because ___________________________________________ .

10/17/2012 08:56 PMPosted by Snafu
I am Masters, you are not.


Except that doesn't affect anything I said. Ravens being able to kill swarm hosts that can't even shoot air doesn't make the unit good let alone awesome.

I just looked at your match history, and wow dude lots of losses lately. I think the raven play is taking its toll.
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Posts: 3,484
10/17/2012 06:01 PMPosted by MappyTinfoil
Ravens are a lot harder to use. Unless pdd can use 50 energy to block spells like fungal and feedback, there is no way ravens can do anything with 7 range spells vs well placed infestors/fungal. The best way ravens can work is if ghosts are made to cancel out spellcastors. Even then that is a huge investment in both ravens/ghosts plus a basic army to go with it. The only problem with ghost raven is upgrades. Raven upgrades are meh. Just armor basically if you go seeker. But in order to use ghosts 3-3 your ground force must be bio. Bcs may come but not until 5-6 bases.


couldnt the same be said for infestors and feedback but we have to rely on infestors every match up. Literally every spell the raven has looks to be as good or better then infestors. but
T looks at the gas prices and shriek. spread out your ravens and fungal becomes a lot worse.

Im still waiting for someone to actually start using Terrans spellcasters and nuke brood/inestors
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Posts: 6,091
Ravens are a lot harder to use. Unless pdd can use 50 energy to block spells like fungal and feedback, there is no way ravens can do anything with 7 range spells vs well placed infestors/fungal. The best way ravens can work is if ghosts are made to cancel out spellcastors. Even then that is a huge investment in both ravens/ghosts plus a basic army to go with it. The only problem with ghost raven is upgrades. Raven upgrades are meh. Just armor basically if you go seeker. But in order to use ghosts 3-3 your ground force must be bio. Bcs may come but not until 5-6 bases.


couldnt the same be said for infestors and feedback but we have to rely on infestors every match up. Literally every spell the raven has looks to be as good or better then infestors. but
T looks at the gas prices and shriek. spread out your ravens and fungal becomes a lot worse.

Im still waiting for someone to actually start using Terrans spellcasters and nuke brood/inestors


Even Blizzard noticed that ravens were hard to micro even at the pro level. That was the point of the speed buff that never was in Patch 1.5.3.

Funny, I feel the opposite about infestors and ravens. Fungal is an all-purpose spell that roots and damages units for 75 energy and 9 range. Once it's used, it's used, and the opponent units are screwed. Not so much with HSM for 125 energy and 6 range, which can be microed to minimize damage after it's been launched. IT's can be launched while burrowed at 9 range (?), while auto-turrets have a 3 casting range and can be stopped just by standing under where it was meant to be landed. PDD is a better spell than mind control, though, I rarely see the neural parasite but I see PDD's whenever I see and use ravens.

Ravens have a lot of potential. They need a small tweak somewhere, though, for them to be added into the terran arsenal more. I know in the HotS beta there was a bug that lowered HSM to 100, and everyone loved it. In Patch 1.5.3 testing, people said the speed buff was nice. One of those need to be added in again to see terrans use it more.
Edited by JorgeCis on 10/18/2012 9:18 AM PDT
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Posts: 4,464
10/18/2012 08:44 AMPosted by Nightwolf
Literally every spell the raven has looks to be as good or better then infestors.


That is a load of crap. The raven's abilities have garbage range and take far more energy compared to the infestors' abilities.

Autoturrets are trash compared to infested terrans, mostly because of their ridiculous placement restrictions. Seeker missiles take forever to get the energy for and unless your opponent is awful at splitting, they aren't worth the wait. Fungal can even uncloak units so Ravens being a detector isn't a benefit that infestors can't make up for.
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Posts: 876
lol. They're flying infestors with Detection...
The only real difference is they don't have and AoE DoT... instead they have a missile that does not miss and does 100 splash damage...

I have a challenge for you Terran players: use the Raven like it's the, like Zerg players use their Infestor, in you late game army... I PROMISE good results.
\

Serious question how do you deal with ultras with ravens? that tech switch is the most annoying thing ever.
Edited by jixmixfix on 10/18/2012 10:34 AM PDT
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Posts: 876
I love how all the plats say that ravens are bad and all the masters are saying that ravens are good, which one would you believe?
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Posts: 180
10/18/2012 10:34 AMPosted by jixmixfix
I love how all the plats say that ravens are bad and all the masters are saying that ravens are good, which one would you believe?


High masters here since everyone seems to think that you need to be a high rank to have a valuable opinion.

Ravens aren't horrible but they are not nearly as good as is being let on by the OP. Ravens are NOT better than infestors which basically serve the same role as the ghost did pre-snipe nerf in the tvz matchup. Additionally, raven's have 2 major flaws that can be taken advantage of. The first is it can be difficult or even impossible to get a mass of them with the upgrades and energy necessary to stop someone who rushes brood lords. The second is the range of seeker missile. A zerg that is really good can chain fungal ravens to death before they get a single seeker missile off regardless of whether the ravens are spread or not.
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Posts: 180
lol. They're flying infestors with Detection...
The only real difference is they don't have and AoE DoT... instead they have a missile that does not miss and does 100 splash damage...

I have a challenge for you Terran players: use the Raven like it's the, like Zerg players use their Infestor, in you late game army... I PROMISE good results.
\

Serious question how do you deal with ultras with ravens? that tech switch is the most annoying thing ever.


You should never be committing 100% to raven/viking, depending on the stage of the game you should have some ground support and add banshees if you see ultras. Later in the game you can try to get battlecruisers out until you get a deathball of raven/viking/battlecruiser w/ a few ghosts that can crush any army the zerg can throw at you.
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Posts: 180
For ultras you need to scout the cavern... and make = number of thors... 1v1 ultra will win. 3+ Thors always win with no micro. now if you have ravens drop the auto turrets infront and behind ultras.. make a barrier so ur thors can't get hit. Trust me i had a Terran do this to me XD

then just HSM away XD
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Posts: 3,310
the gas cost difference, as well as starports + tech lab vs hatcheries + queen, make one unit easier to get in mass. I also kinda wish raven's sm was cheaper in mana.

there's also the minor detail of infestors having 1 upgrade, and ravens having like 5(?).

If you could have 1 raven for every 1 infestor zerg could field, at the same point in the game, ravens would be very very awesome. Sadly you kinda can't until the super late game...
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