So who said Ravens are bad?

Posts: 2,461
Ravens only work cause zerg's are lazy and bad if zergs put half the effort terrans do in splitting they would suck even at around plat but even high master zergs have no clue what splitting is .In a sense the unit is currently balanced cause of lazier players if zerg starting splitting ravens would be up .
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Posts: 321
Ravens are actually VERY strong. In almost every pro zvt, you will see the caster asking for ravens, saying that they are soo good. And they are. They block every Z AA, get tons of turrets that last a riduculously long time, and seeker missile needs no explanation.
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Posts: 96
i just played a intense game where it was mech vs a marauder heavy ground army. he managed to push through my contain but i had 3 ravens with seeker's. i killed so much of his army it stalled his push and put me right back in control. thats how i like to use ravens. good for a devestating attack on a bio heavy army.
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Posts: 180
10/18/2012 04:32 PMPosted by NovaRanger
i just played a intense game where it was mech vs a marauder heavy ground army. he managed to push through my contain but i had 3 ravens with seeker's. i killed so much of his army it stalled his push and put me right back in control. thats how i like to use ravens. good for a devestating attack on a bio heavy army.


Stimmed bio can just run away from seeker missiles. If they are marauder heavy and your playing mech the purpose of the raven is more for PDD than seeker missile as it basically turns marauders into paperweights for a time-being.
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Posts: 2,083
10/18/2012 08:44 AMPosted by Nightwolf
Ravens are a lot harder to use. Unless pdd can use 50 energy to block spells like fungal and feedback, there is no way ravens can do anything with 7 range spells vs well placed infestors/fungal. The best way ravens can work is if ghosts are made to cancel out spellcastors. Even then that is a huge investment in both ravens/ghosts plus a basic army to go with it. The only problem with ghost raven is upgrades. Raven upgrades are meh. Just armor basically if you go seeker. But in order to use ghosts 3-3 your ground force must be bio. Bcs may come but not until 5-6 bases.


couldnt the same be said for infestors and feedback but we have to rely on infestors every match up. Literally every spell the raven has looks to be as good or better then infestors. but
T looks at the gas prices and shriek. spread out your ravens and fungal becomes a lot worse.

Im still waiting for someone to actually start using Terrans spellcasters and nuke brood/inestors

It is a lot harder to amass ravens due to their cost AND MULTIPLE EXPENSIVE UPGRADES. Energy upgrade, seeker missile upgrade, durable materials (extends seeker missile length too so you must get it for ravens to be good). All 3 upgrades must be obtained in order to use ravens optimally and none of them are cheap. It takes more time and resources to get ravens than for zerg to get broodlords.
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Posts: 2,083
10/18/2012 04:08 PMPosted by NonameAI
Ravens are actually VERY strong. In almost every pro zvt, you will see the caster asking for ravens, saying that they are soo good. And they are. They block every Z AA, get tons of turrets that last a riduculously long time, and seeker missile needs no explanation.

But requires more investments and harder to use.
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Posts: 382
10/17/2012 06:08 PMPosted by Oxygen
no to mention you are both silver.


im gold actually. And that shouldnt have any impact on my statement, which is entirely true. For the cost and the time it takes to produce them theyre not really cost effective.
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Posts: 1,103
10/18/2012 02:18 AMPosted by DukeInstinct
That's my video and my play.


I wasn't critiquing your play.

Ravens are awesome.


Because ___________________________________________ .
I am Masters, you are not.


Except that doesn't affect anything I said. Ravens being able to kill swarm hosts that can't even shoot air doesn't make the unit good let alone awesome.

I just looked at your match history, and wow dude lots of losses lately. I think the raven play is taking its toll.
He got to masters using Ravens a unit you say is useless yet you are only in plat.
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Posts: 180
[/quote] He got to masters using Ravens a unit you say is useless yet you are only in plat.[/quote]

This point is completely irrelevant. I'm pretty sure I could get into masters using any unit/composition I wanted whether it be mass marine, mass raven, or hell even mass hellion. Judging a units usefulness on whether or not you can get into masters by using a unit is pointless.
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Posts: 50
I'm genuinely interested in learning how to use ravens.
please show me how to do it yourself... with a replay

or else, you're just another zerg player who would be in plat/dia league if were to play Terran.
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Posts: 89
hammer RRR
or go to youtube and check out ketroc21
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Posts: 8,340
I am Masters, you are not.


Except that doesn't affect anything I said. Ravens being able to kill swarm hosts that can't even shoot air doesn't make the unit good let alone awesome.

I just looked at your match history, and wow dude lots of losses lately. I think the raven play is taking its toll.


*Checks match history and sees that his w/l ratio is like 70% Dismisses troll*
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Posts: 3,892
10/17/2012 06:01 PMPosted by MappyTinfoil
The best way ravens can work is if ghosts are made to cancel out spellcastors. Even then that is a huge investment in both ravens/ghosts plus a basic army to go with it.


Raven has an inverse cost with the raven, so they actually go quite well together. Whereas protoss and zerg late game units are all gas heavy, ghosts are mineral heavy while ravens are gas heavy.

10/17/2012 06:01 PMPosted by MappyTinfoil
The only problem with ghost raven is upgrades. Raven upgrades are meh. Just armor basically if you go seeker. But in order to use ghosts 3-3 your ground force must be bio.


Upgrades aren't necessary for ghosts if you want to go mech or air. Their main utility comes from EMP. Of course it would be nice to have them upgraded, but that's far from necessary.
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Posts: 736
Ravens are awesome.

Auto-Turrets are free DPS.
Auto-Turrets can be used as a force-field in some cases.
PDDs block almost all ranged attacks.
Seeker Missiles one-shot large groups of most clumped units.
Auto-Turrets and Seeker Missiles can be used as effective worker harass.
Ravens are mobile detection.
Ravens do not require an air attack upgrade. (Works well with bio accompanied by medivacs.)
Two upgrades used by Ravens are also used by buildings. (PF wall please?)
They are flying spellcasters.
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Posts: 4,735
Ravens are a garbage unit. only semi effctive in maps that can be split and played for an hour. even then it relies on your opponent clumping (ie making a mistake) to pay off for the investment.
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Posts: 726
Ravens are okay, but they are harder to use than infestors. Fungal is a guaranteed hit. Anyone with good micro can dodge a seeker missile.

Plus cost.
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Posts: 3
oxy is right...
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Posts: 252
The problem isn't the raven, the problem is the raven being a terran starport unit. It boils down to macro mechanics. Ravens are hard to get. Besides all the upgrades, you need a lot of starports to get ravens in good numbers (in low numbers, they're just flying paperweights). Which is why you really only see them in ultra late game scenarios where that can happen.

Zerg just needs the infestation pit (which they get anyway), and maybe an upgrade or two. Then they can make as many infestors as they want, as all their unit producing structures can make infestors. Instant critical mass.

If ravens were zerg unit, and infestors were terran starport units, zerg would mass ravens, and terran would never build infestors. For exactly the same reason. They're only really good when you have a ton of them, and that's hard to get off one starport.
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Posts: 7,099
I find the Raven is incredibly useful, but only in a few niche circumstances.

In TvZ it's great- but incredibly expensive. It costs as much Gas as a Thor, and it's only use in the early and mid game is PDD because of the sheer cost of getting multiple Ravens, the energy upgrade, and HSM is too much to be useful early enough, though the Raven is Terran's most supply-effective unit.

Even in the late-game, the primary use is PDD to stop Corruptors from killing your Vikings, and HSM is only useful if the Zerg clumps all his Air units up, which Thors already punish if you focus fire with them.

The problem isn't the raven, the problem is the raven being a terran starport unit. It boils down to macro mechanics. Ravens are hard to get. Besides all the upgrades, you need a lot of starports to get ravens in good numbers (in low numbers, they're just flying paperweights). Which is why you really only see them in ultra late game scenarios where that can happen.

Zerg just needs the infestation pit (which they get anyway), and maybe an upgrade or two. Then they can make as many infestors as they want, as all their unit producing structures can make infestors. Instant critical mass.

If ravens were zerg unit, and infestors were terran starport units, zerg would mass ravens, and terran would never build infestors. For exactly the same reason. They're only really good when you have a ton of them, and that's hard to get off one starport.
I agree that the fact that Terran has to build multiple Starports to use Ravens effectively is one reason, but I think a much bigger factor is that the Raven has five upgrades affecting it, and you need at least two --energy and HSM-- to make it comparable with the Thor, Tank, or Viking in cost-effectiveness. The other three are to make one of it's abilities moderately useful.
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Posts: 2,083
10/22/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Linkebungu
Upgrades aren't necessary for ghosts if you want to go mech or air. Their main utility comes from EMP. Of course it would be nice to have them upgraded, but that's far from necessary.

lol, remove the auto attack and give epic buffs to the ghost's spells. Then lets talk.

10/22/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Linkebungu
Raven has an inverse cost with the raven, so they actually go quite well together. Whereas protoss and zerg late game units are all gas heavy, ghosts are mineral heavy while ravens are gas heavy.

protoss gateway units are mineral dumps while their aoe tech are gas dumps.
zerg is really gas expensive but hey, they have "free" (jk) bases.

lets not forget that ghosts are not inverse mineral-gas wise. There are more minerals than gysers. Your mineral production should be 200% if not more of your gas intake naturally. So ghosts are more well rounded in cost but we still have to deal with the big drainage in gas. Its not just the money. It is the time. Ghosts require both cloak (without cloak they are 50% weaker) and the energy upgrade. Ravens require basically all of its upgrades. An army of raven ghosts no doubt will take longer to make than a broodlord infestor army.
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