StarCraft® II

some questions about 1-1-1

Posts: 719
When should i build the reactor on the barracks?

Should i cut workers at any point? When?

When should I be pushing?

Should i get an eng bay at any point before 10 minutes? (for muta)

I know the basic BO for the 1 rax expand and 3 rax stim, im just trying to diversify. any help would be appreciated.

Also, a general question about medivacs: is thier energy upgrade any good? ive heard that because of their longevity, its kinda useless.
Edited by SunnyD on 10/28/2012 5:41 PM PDT
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Posts: 7,097
10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
When should i build the reactor on the barracks?
This depends on your exact build order and the matchup. In TvP you build it after your first three Marines, in TvT I have no idea.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
Should i cut workers at any point? When?
TvP, no. Workers tank a lot of damage, build Bunkers that you can position your Tanks behind, and repair your Banshees and Siege Tanks. You also don't need to build extra Barracks to spend your Minerals if you make them.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
Should i get an eng bay at any point before 10 minutes? (for muta)
I have not heard of anyone going 1-1-1 in TvZ in a very, very long time. This implies that it does not work nearly as well as something like 1 Barracks FE into Hellion/Banshee.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
Also, a general question about medivacs: is thier energy upgrade any good? ive heard that because of their longevity, its kinda useless.
Yes, it is better to get a different upgrade, another unit, or another production facility with the money. Medivacs spend their energy slowly and only completely expend it in niche situations, so it is indeed useless 99% of the time.
Edited by Fencar on 10/28/2012 6:18 PM PDT
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Posts: 153
10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
When should i build the reactor on the barracks?


It depends on the match-up, and there are variations.
TvZ - after 2 marines
@100 gas make factor
@50 gas add reactor
@100% reactor/factory swap factor onto reactor, tech lab on rax, start building starport and helions

TvP
1 marine out to deny scout,
@ 50 gas reactor, non-stop marine production
@ 100 gas factory and 2nd refinery
@ 100 gas starport
tech lab on factory after it finish, swap factory and starport.

TvT
Same as tvp or instead of reactor on rax, get an earlier factory, and add a second rax.
unless you're opening hellion banshee.

Like I said there are a lot of variations based on what your goal is.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
Should i cut workers at any point? When?

flat out no, never unless you're planning 1 base all in.

One a 1 base all in you'll want to cut worker production about 1-2 minutes before you plan to push out.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
When should I be pushing?

Again different for each match-up and goal of your push. As a general rule of thumb, push out as close to 9:20 as possible to arrive at opponents base by 10:00.

10:00 minutes is generally right as tech is finishing for your opponent, but units or skills being produced by that tech haven't quite finished.

For a 1 base all in strategy you'll want to hit each opponent at their weakest spots.
TvP
6:00-6:30 (depending on player) is when warp research finishes
I aim for 7:30 to be at the base with units rallying down. This gives toss 1-2 rounds of units off 1,2,3 gates or 4 gates if they're going all in as well

TvT 1/1/1 you can expect banshees out at 6:00 at the very earliest, usually around 6:30
TvT 1 rax fe, anytime before 8:00 minutes when eco starts kicking in hard
TvT 1/1/1 with tanks, arrive before seige tech finishes unless you're going for your own seige tech with viking still around 7-8 minutes.

TvZ
you should be looking at arriving at zergs 3rd around 9:40 about 30 seconds to a minute before the first mutas come out, unless they're going 2 base muta.

10/28/2012 05:41 PMPosted by SunnyD
Should i get an eng bay at any point before 10 minutes? (for muta)


If you're going 1/1/1 helion expand against zerg, you should definitely be getting and ebay with +1 armor around 8 minutes, as well as scanning at 8 minutes looking for a lair tech/infestation pit or spire, add turrets as necessary

I personally prefer
hellion expand with 4-6 hellions into a 10 minute timing push with stim,combat shields, 2 medivacs and 2-3 tanks with +1 armor on the way. If nothing else you can setup a temporary contain on the zerg while you take your 3rd, if you dont kill him outright with this push.
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Posts: 719
I should probably be more specific. I looking for a TvT 1-1-1

Thanks for the help so far though.
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Posts: 153
10/28/2012 07:11 PMPosted by SunnyD
should probably be more specific. I looking for a TvT 1-1-1


Reactor hellion --> bashee?
Hellion + marine drop?
Cloak banshee --> Marine Tank push?

wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Portal:Terran_Strategy
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Posts: 719
10/28/2012 07:28 PMPosted by Niftee
should probably be more specific. I looking for a TvT 1-1-1


Reactor hellion --> bashee?
Hellion + marine drop?
Cloak banshee --> Marine Tank push?


I usually shoot for marines, two tanks and a medivac for 10 minutes. Is this wrong? do i have to go banshee or hellion?
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Posts: 153
10/28/2012 07:34 PMPosted by SunnyD


Reactor hellion --> bashee?
Hellion + marine drop?
Cloak banshee --> Marine Tank push?


I usually shoot for marines, two tanks and a medivac for 10 minutes. Is this wrong? do i have to go banshee or hellion?


no you absolutely do not.

You can either
1) reactor your barracks after your 3rd marine
2) add a 2nd rax after your factor and reactor your starport

with option one, your seige tech is a little bit delayed
option two, your push is a little bit delayed with more marines, but you get an earlier seige tech for any sort of super early aggression.
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Posts: 973
10/28/2012 07:34 PMPosted by SunnyD


Reactor hellion --> bashee?
Hellion + marine drop?
Cloak banshee --> Marine Tank push?


I usually shoot for marines, two tanks and a medivac for 10 minutes. Is this wrong? do i have to go banshee or hellion?


you should have more than two tanks by ten minutes if the only other things youre spending gas on is a medivac and reactor

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1/1/1_Build/Banshee_into_Siege_Tech_All-in

this build goes 2 cloaked banshees, and have 2 siege tanks + siege mode finished at 10 min, so you're probably not doing the buil dcorre3ctly
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Posts: 153
Agreed, you should have way more than 2 tanks, medivacs and some marines by 10 minutes.

You can hit with that push at his base around 7:30.
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Posts: 617
Here is everything you need to know about the 1-1-1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBeTubQ7vT4
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Posts: 719
So i did a practice match using the 1-1-1 build against the computer. I figured I'd post up a replay so that you guys can critique any problems with my macro/BO:

http://drop.sc/269504

My Factory is done by 4:45 and the starport is done at 5:40. My first tank is at 6:00. i push at 7:00 and arrive by 8:00 siege tech having just finished. Total army size is 11 marines, 2 tanks and a medivac. Does this all sound standard?

Also, i find that i am constantly short on minerals near the end. I am forced to cut marine and SCV production and i get supply blocked a little by the end. Is this just a natural consequence of the 1-1-1? What can i do to prevent this problem?

I want to get this build perfect so that i can replicate my success on the ladder. So far, i've been winging it and it hasnt gone very well, especially since im still facing diamond players.
Edited by SunnyD on 10/30/2012 6:58 PM PDT
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Posts: 719
bump
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Posts: 81
The 1/1/1 tank style builder order isn't designed for an outright win. I haven't watched the replay but basically you should be expanding behind this. If you find yourself getting mineral and supply blocked you either have too many units que'd or you don't have enough scv's or you didn't get your expansion out early enough.
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Posts: 719
10/31/2012 03:07 PMPosted by BLNiftee
The 1/1/1 tank style builder order isn't designed for an outright win. I haven't watched the replay but basically you should be expanding behind this. If you find yourself getting mineral and supply blocked you either have too many units que'd or you don't have enough scv's or you didn't get your expansion out early enough.


Wa... i thought the 1-1-1 was an all in?
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Posts: 873
I should probably be more specific. I looking for a TvT 1-1-1

Thanks for the help so far though.


That doesn't help us narrow it down at all....
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Posts: 81
It today's current meta 1 base all in's aren't as effective as they used to be. People have adapted. T's are learning to hold things like 1-1-1 even going cc first. What your hopes with this should be, is to either
1) lightly contain your opponent while grab a 2nd and stay way ahead on tank count and a plan to push at ~15 with a max supply.
2) Do enough economic damage that you can win outright with a follow up push after you've expanded
3) Posture around the map, take map control and greedy 3rd leading into a stronger macro economic position.

Say I go 1 rax fe, into 2/2 timing push with marine/medi

you decide to go 1 base all in. I manage to hold your attack with 5-10 scv's and my marines and a bunker or 2.

Not only is your main mostly mined out, but my army is now equivalent or stronger than your army because of upgrades, and more mobile because I dont have to worry about seiging and un-seiging tanks.

If you expand behind your push and dont all in, you're close to me in eco, but have a huge advantage because you have more tech out. You can make banshee's crank out more tanks and really put on the pressure with a contain.

If you're going to do a gas 1/1/1 build, dont make an all in or you'll lose more often than you'll win.
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Posts: 719
Okay, that makes sense. thank you.
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