StarCraft® II

TvZ issue

Posts: 8
I am having some huge problems against zerg at the moment. I do the now usual b/o 1 rax FE into gas into hellions + banshee harass.

but 50% of my games even if i scout and early gas, i don't feel like i can change a lot in my build and i get cheesed. Zergs does 6-7 roaches to deny or delay my expend or if im fortunate they try to baneling bust me and fail miserably..lol stupid zerg players... but i am very annoye by the quick roaches to deny my expo. Any help would be appreciated =)
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Posts: 2,284
Have you ever tried reacting to them? I've heard that works. For example they pressure with 7 roaches, just pull your SCVs into your main and let your banshee do the work...
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Posts: 1,736
How did you get into Masters without knowing how to handle quick roaches?
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Posts: 21
11/01/2012 10:16 PMPosted by Rathelm
How did you get into Masters without knowing how to handle quick roaches?


11/01/2012 10:04 PMPosted by BlackDeath
Have you ever tried reacting to them? I've heard that works. For example they pressure with 7 roaches, just pull your SCVs into your main and let your banshee do the work...


I think you guys are misunderstanding what he's talking about. Zerg can send a few roaches (5-7) to deny/delay the natural of the Terran, because the current 'standard build' for Terrans is to build three marines and a bunker, and then move to hellion-banshee.

With this build, the Zerg is free to drone up and take a super quick third base, and have defenses up by the time the banshees and hellions are done dealing with the roaches. Ultimately, the Zerg comes out ahead with this trade, even if they weren't very cost efficient with the roaches.

It's tricky. It's not game-ending, but it does put the Terran behind. I guess it's comparable to a Protoss player preemptively building pylons at the natural and third of their Zerg opponent. Does it mean the Zerg will lose? Not necessarily. Is the Zerg going to be playing from behind in the early game? Almost definitely.
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Posts: 2,284
I think you guys are misunderstanding what he's talking about. Zerg can send a few roaches (5-7) to deny/delay the natural of the Terran, because the current 'standard build' for Terrans is to build three marines and a bunker, and then move to hellion-banshee.

With this build, the Zerg is free to drone up and take a super quick third base, and have defenses up by the time the banshees and hellions are done dealing with the roaches. Ultimately, the Zerg comes out ahead with this trade, even if they weren't very cost efficient with the roaches.

It's tricky. It's not game-ending, but it does put the Terran behind. I guess it's comparable to a Protoss player preemptively building pylons at the natural and third of their Zerg opponent. Does it mean the Zerg will lose? Not necessarily. Is the Zerg going to be playing from behind in the early game? Almost definitely.


Screw bunkers, you just need your banshee and all you lose is a bit of mining time in your natural. I always have 3 orbitals and it's impossible to come out behind if you don't lose any workers because you won't. Even if zerg drones and takes bases as fast they can, they will still be behind you assuming you know what you're doing. In fact they will have to rebuild more roaches or speedlings if they don't want to lose all their drones across 3 base.
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Posts: 1,736
I just don't see how the Terran could be behind in this situation. To get 5-7 roaches out in time to threaten the Terran natural would be devastating to the Zerg's economy. How could you even take a third base that quickly afterwards, let alone saturate it? I would just like to see a replay of how it work. To me it says very all-inish on the Zerg's part.

EDIT:

I'd also like to add that doing something like this would completely negate your ability to get 4 queens, which I consider to be absolutely necessary in ZvT otherwise you become very vulnerable to banshee play.
Edited by Rathelm on 11/1/2012 11:37 PM PDT
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Posts: 6,502
If I scout early gas and suspect a bust or early Roach pressure, I've been getting a 2nd techlab on the rax and getting a Marauder or 2 and dropping a couple extra Bunkers, if I'm really worried. Although, now that I think about it, I probably could do the same with Marines in Bunkers. A triangle of Bunkers with 2ish Marines in each, with some good building placement to screw up his pathing, can hold pretty much any bust. Especially if it's supported by Banshees.
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Posts: 1,981
i actually just had this happen to me.

Most importantly, Scout the the roach warren. At this point i have my natural down and a bunker with 3 marines. Factory should be half way done.

I put a tech lab on the barracks (instead of putting a reactor on it and switching with factory) and put down a second bunker and get two marauders.

Once factory is done start the starport and then you can switch the tech lab on the barracks.

Your banshee may be a bit delayed, but the two bunkers + a bit of repair will be enough to stop aggressive roaches.
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Posts: 741
I just don't see how the Terran could be behind in this situation. To get 5-7 roaches out in time to threaten the Terran natural would be devastating to the Zerg's economy. How could you even take a third base that quickly afterwards, let alone saturate it? I would just like to see a replay of how it work. To me it says very all-inish on the Zerg's part.

EDIT:

I'd also like to add that doing something like this would completely negate your ability to get 4 queens, which I consider to be absolutely necessary in ZvT otherwise you become very vulnerable to banshee play.


Why the zerg crafters post in a terran forum?
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Posts: 81
Is 3CC becoming the new standard of play? I honestly try to win all of my games before the 20 minute mark, I find this is totally doable just off 2 base with a transition to 3rd if necessary around 12 before main mines out. If i have to be on a 4th or 5th base I don't want to be in the game.

Im finding that a lot of 2 base even 1 base play is still really strong? Too many people just trying to play meta style or is it actually a better more viable opening?
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