StarCraft® II

Zerg is ridic in GSL Code S

So the fact that there were 14 terrans in the round of 32 is ok, but the fact 8 zergs are in the round of 16 is not ok? i see some bias showing.

Also, before you cry about all the eliminations of Terrans and protoss, look at the groups and how they were made up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5/Code_S#Format

the zergs got lucky and were in groups alone, with 2 exceptions. and in those exeptions:

z Pass
t Pass
z Eliminated
t Eliminated

z Pass
z Pass
p Eliminated
t Eliminated
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So the fact that there were 14 terrans in the round of 32 is ok, but the fact 8 zergs are in the round of 16 is not ok? i see some bias showing.

Also, before you cry about all the eliminations of Terrans and protoss, look at the groups and how they were made up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5/Code_S#Format

the zergs got lucky and were in groups alone, with 2 exceptions. and in those exeptions:

z Pass
t Pass
z Eliminated
t Eliminated

z Pass
z Pass
p Eliminated
t Eliminated


terrans are played more than other races in korea, yet zergs dominate the GM ladder, and tournaments of all stripes. bias? there is no bias in facts. the fact that RoRo was the only zerg eliminated in this Code S season, and mostly because he forgot 60 supply of his units in a nydus, zerg would have been 100% from Ro32 to Ro16. thats never happened with any other race in any other tournament ever. the win % and upper brackets in tournaments is the issue. it isnt about butt-hurt pros. it's about broken game mechanics like the winfestor/GG Lord/spine crawler balls. again....forum zergs = everything is fine.....the rest of the world of sc2 including blizz = no, everything is not fine. yet here you are
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So the fact that there were 14 terrans in the round of 32 is ok, but the fact 8 zergs are in the round of 16 is not ok? i see some bias showing.

Also, before you cry about all the eliminations of Terrans and protoss, look at the groups and how they were made up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_5/Code_S#Format

the zergs got lucky and were in groups alone, with 2 exceptions. and in those exeptions:

z Pass
t Pass
z Eliminated
t Eliminated

z Pass
z Pass
p Eliminated
t Eliminated


terrans are played more than other races in korea, yet zergs dominate the GM ladder, and tournaments of all stripes. bias? there is no bias in facts. the fact that RoRo was the only zerg eliminated in this Code S season, and mostly because he forgot 60 supply of his units in a nydus, zerg would have been 100% from Ro32 to Ro16. thats never happened with any other race in any other tournament ever. the win % and upper brackets in tournaments is the issue. it isnt about butt-hurt pros. it's about broken game mechanics like the winfestor/GG Lord/spine crawler balls. again....forum zergs = everything is fine.....the rest of the world of sc2 including blizz = no, everything is not fine. yet here you are


Your bias is showing ;).
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terrans are played more than other races in korea, yet zergs dominate the GM ladder, and tournaments of all stripes. bias? there is no bias in facts. the fact that RoRo was the only zerg eliminated in this Code S season, and mostly because he forgot 60 supply of his units in a nydus, zerg would have been 100% from Ro32 to Ro16. thats never happened with any other race in any other tournament ever. the win % and upper brackets in tournaments is the issue. it isnt about butt-hurt pros. it's about broken game mechanics like the winfestor/GG Lord/spine crawler balls. again....forum zergs = everything is fine.....the rest of the world of sc2 including blizz = no, everything is not fine. yet here you are


Your bias is showing ;).


i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts
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I never said everything is fine. I hate the infestor and how zergs are required to use it at a crutch to lean on in order to win games. The fact that zerg has Hydras, completely unusable unit, and the ultra, a nearly unusable unit is just ridicules.

On top of that we have the only unit in the game that is not capable of damaging the ground units in any way. (the corruptor) Zerg is terrably designed and blizards fix for that is was to buff the infestor and make that zerg is required to make infestors in order to have a chance to win a game. Rather than buff the !@#$ units of zerg, or nerf the super good units of the other races (colsi or mariens anyone)
Edited by Munk on 11/9/2012 8:03 PM PST
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i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts


so playing your last game on 9/12/2012 is 6 month ago? nice to know your sense of time.
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Your bias is showing ;).


i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts


You made this thread because of the lack of Protoss's. How is that not biased? You made FALSE claims. You call me biased for disproving you with FACTUAL evidence. The game is balanced tournament wise(This is the point that I am trying to make). Your only counter-argument is "Check liquipedia", or "You're biased". You have not posted anything to back up your claims.
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i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts


so playing your last game on 9/12/2012 is 6 month ago? nice to know your sense of time.


are you that daft? do you actually think this is still my account and that i wouldnt know youd look at my profile before saying that? see, what high school kids who learna few things about debate still dont understand is that it isnt about the speaker as much as it is about what the speaker is saying....
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i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts


You made this thread because of the lack of Protoss's. How is that not biased? You made FALSE claims. You call me biased for disproving you with FACTUAL evidence. The game is balanced tournament wise(This is the point that I am trying to make). Your only counter-argument is "Check liquipedia", or "You're biased". You have not posted anything to back up your claims.


see, swarm, the thing is, your EVIDENCE doesnt support you. if you look at the tournaments in the last 3 months it supports what ive been saying. saying they're facts doesnt make them true. go to the liquipedia page and look at allllll the red there. most of those tournaments are littered with zerg dominations. the GM ladder on the KR server is ridiculous. it's rife with zerg. actually, i made no assertion for protoss at all. in fact, terran is the most underrepresented race in most tournaments right now. are you BLIND????? liquipedia doesnt support you....AT ALL.....stop saying you made factual claims....
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Minor_Tournaments....what color do you see?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments....take a look at all the tournaments i mentioned previously....
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments....what finals do you see most of since August?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Monthly_Tournaments....tell me what you see here?
JUST STOP...
Edited by ShinY on 11/9/2012 8:58 PM PST
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You're telling him to look at TL again. Terrans are fine considering 1 Ghost can KILL 2-4 infesters just by holding down shift and clicking twice on an infester. I know that PvZ/ZvP needs some work though. But IdrA still believes that Zerg is UP so I am interested on where you found him saying Zerg is OP ;p
Edited by Hunta on 11/9/2012 9:09 PM PST
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so playing your last game on 9/12/2012 is 6 month ago? nice to know your sense of time.


are you that daft? do you actually think this is still my account and that i wouldnt know youd look at my profile before saying that? see, what high school kids who learna few things about debate still dont understand is that it isnt about the speaker as much as it is about what the speaker is saying....


i dont even know what you are trying to say here. I mean, you are logged into that account posting on these forums, so i assume that the account is still yours.

Also your entire argument is just "your wrong zerg imba BLARG" you don't admit that 14 terrans in the round of 32 is just as bad as the 8 zergs in the round of 16. On top of that the zergs in the round of 16 got lucky with how the group stage was set up.
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Balance / maps is good for zerg right now - especially late game :/
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so playing your last game on 9/12/2012 is 6 month ago? nice to know your sense of time.


are you that daft? do you actually think this is still my account and that i wouldnt know youd look at my profile before saying that? see, what high school kids who learna few things about debate still dont understand is that it isnt about the speaker as much as it is about what the speaker is saying....


Except...you're the one who brought up how long people have, or haven't played this game to increase your credibility and attack theirs in the first place. The door swings both ways and he called you on it. After all, you still are posting on your account that supposedly does not belong to you anymore.

Can you not see that you just claimed that you were more credible than he was because you had no vested interest and he did? And then he attacked your credibility in the same way so you switched over to "it's not who I am that matters, it's my argument". Guess what? That applies to him to or else you're just being a hypocrite. Your understanding is no better than "those high school kids" you're bashing on.
Edited by Toortanga on 11/9/2012 9:33 PM PST
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We saw this same trend when protoss was considered overpowered for an 8+ month stretch. You know what blizzard did to change it? Nothing. They did the same thing they're doing now, waiting and seeing. And sure enough, very few reasonable people consider protoss overpowered now.
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are you that daft? do you actually think this is still my account and that i wouldnt know youd look at my profile before saying that? see, what high school kids who learna few things about debate still dont understand is that it isnt about the speaker as much as it is about what the speaker is saying....


Except...you're the one who brought up who you are in the first place for crediblity purposes. The door swings both ways. He just called you on it. After all, you still are posting on your account that supposedly does not belong to you anymore. You can't say "this is who I am and so it makes me more credible and at the same time claim that it doesn't matter who I am, just what I am saying when someone questions it. That's hypocrisy.


when did i bring up who i was? who am i? makes almost no sense and it isnt even relevant how is how long ive been gone from the game even remotely on point? that's what im getting at. calling me on what? bias? not playing the game? there seems to be a major brain malfunction from, lo and behold, zerg players on forums, between the race representation and win % in tourneys. it isn't just luck these last 3 months. there have been many threads about it. ZSL is prevalent. i quoted liquipedias tournament facts, so im not sure about heresay. idra talked about it in the suppy vs bratok match during eg master cup. i cant find the vod, but look for it. it doesnt really even matter if he said it or not at this point. everyone knows it except forum zergs....look at the tournament data i posted and come back to me with facts instead of ad hominem.....
Edited by ShinY on 11/9/2012 9:33 PM PST
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To be a little fair, most of those Zergs are high level, versus a couple lesser-known Terran and Protoss.

Life, Curious, Leenock, DRG, Symbol, HyuN. The only questionable Zergs in my mind are Soulkey and Sniper.

Let's also note that Rain, who's generally been a pretty strong player, didn't participate in his group, skewing the results there a bit. HyuN could have easily been dropped out of his group had Rain been there. MVP is still most likely suffering from his wrist injury or whatever. TaeJa didn't have any Zergs in his group.


Good point!

But I did see Squirtle get reamed. Makes me sad.
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Except...you're the one who brought up who you are in the first place for crediblity purposes. The door swings both ways. He just called you on it. After all, you still are posting on your account that supposedly does not belong to you anymore. You can't say "this is who I am and so it makes me more credible and at the same time claim that it doesn't matter who I am, just what I am saying when someone questions it. That's hypocrisy.


when did i bring up who i was? who am i? makes almost no sense and it isnt even relevant how is how long ive been gone from the game even remotely on point? that's what im getting at. calling me on what? bias? not playing the game? there seems to be a major brain malfunction from, lo and behold, zerg players on forums, between the race representation and win % in tourneys. it isn't just luck these last 3 months. there have been many threads about it. ZSL is prevalent. i quoted liquipedias tournament facts, so im not sure about heresay. idra talked about it in the suppy vs bratok match during eg master cup. i cant find the vod, but look for it. it doesnt really even matter if he said it or not at this point. everyone knows it except forum zergs....look at the tournament data i posted and come back to me with facts instead of ad hominem.....

I'm not referring to any arguments about Starcraft whatsoever. I am referring soley to the way you went about that one argument.

If how long you have been from the game is not important, then why did you feel the need to say this:


i quit this game 6 months ago. i enjoy(ed) watching it until the latest from Z. my favorite matchup to watch is TvZ. if anyone has a bias....it's you, who plays this game with the race you defend in spite of facts


It seems to imply that you feel it is important in some way, but when called on it you say it is irrelevant.

How did you bring up who you were? You did that when responded to his dispute of your time away from the game by saying "it didn't matter who you were, just your argument". By rolling "who you are" with "amount of time not playing the game" you turned it into such an situtation.

If "who you are" and "time playing the game truly aren't related, then you responded to his dispute about time away from the game with an statement irrelevant to the current situation about attacking people's character rather than their argument. If they are the same related, then you are making use of the same argument, but rejecting it when other people do the same.
Edited by Toortanga on 11/9/2012 9:52 PM PST
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11/09/2012 09:30 PMPosted by GameOfDrones
We saw this same trend when protoss was considered overpowered for an 8+ month stretch. You know what blizzard did to change it? Nothing. They did the same thing they're doing now, waiting and seeing. And sure enough, very few reasonable people consider protoss overpowered now.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=368146
im curious as to where you see protoss being OP for 8 months......
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We saw this same trend when protoss was considered overpowered for an 8+ month stretch. You know what blizzard did to change it? Nothing. They did the same thing they're doing now, waiting and seeing. And sure enough, very few reasonable people consider protoss overpowered now.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=368146
im curious as to where you see protoss being OP for 8 months......


I said "considered overpowered" - I've always argued that it was balanced.

But there was a good 8 month stretch where people were crying toss imba - either you weren't here then, or you're mis-remembering history for your own benefit. Part of the way through, they announced the battlehellion to combat chargelots, and from the way the forum exploded you'd think that chargelots were the be-all end-all unit against terran.

QQ is rarely justified, and zerg is no exception.

http://i.imgur.com/B9Rww.jpg

These were the stats leading up to the lack of TLPD updates. Zerg is well within the 5% margin of error.

Here are the tournament stats from the last 2 months: http://www.sc2ratings.com/stats.php?racedays=60

Again zerg is well within the 5% margin of error.

The QQ over protoss got so bad they released a balance snapshot of the ladder to try and calm people down. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3551858/StarCraft_II_Balance_Snapshot_-9_22_2011

The QQ over zerg began right after the queen buff - up until that point, the forums were full of protoss QQ to an absurd extent. After that, suddenly protoss wasn't considered overpowered anymore, and zerg was the new QQ fad.

Hell, even when faced with those stats you posted, people on TL (a generally les QQ-oriented forum) are trying to write it off and claim protoss is "still OP".

"International win rates mean nothing. Protoss have been absolutely dominating in Korea."

"So protoss players still didnt learn how to play this game and zvt is getting more and more balanced. Cant wait to see korean graphs though."

"Meh no korean stats. Just look at how the Korean top Tosses dominated WCS. If you are good enough Protoss is in a great spot."

etc.

AND this thread is from well after the main protoss QQ fad, and yet STILL people are claiming they're imba. People are dumb, and will cling to their QQ rather than learn to get better.
Edited by GameOfDrones on 11/9/2012 10:03 PM PST
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You made this thread because of the lack of Protoss's. How is that not biased? You made FALSE claims. You call me biased for disproving you with FACTUAL evidence. The game is balanced tournament wise(This is the point that I am trying to make). Your only counter-argument is "Check liquipedia", or "You're biased". You have not posted anything to back up your claims.


see, swarm, the thing is, your EVIDENCE doesnt support you. if you look at the tournaments in the last 3 months it supports what ive been saying. saying they're facts doesnt make them true. go to the liquipedia page and look at allllll the red there. most of those tournaments are littered with zerg dominations. the GM ladder on the KR server is ridiculous. it's rife with zerg. actually, i made no assertion for protoss at all. in fact, terran is the most underrepresented race in most tournaments right now. are you BLIND????? liquipedia doesnt support you....AT ALL.....stop saying you made factual claims....
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Minor_Tournaments....what color do you see?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments....take a look at all the tournaments i mentioned previously....
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments....what finals do you see most of since August?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Monthly_Tournaments....tell me what you see here?
JUST STOP...

Nice job posting partial links. You're probably not used to providing proof since most of what you say is out of your !@#.

First off, I don't really care for Minor tournaments since the majority of the players are either unknown or they are known but are competing against lesser players.

Minor Tournaments

-Scan Invitational #6

I think SortOf finished higher than what he should of. JohhnyRecco is a much better Zerg imo, he was tied for 5th place in TSL4. He is a much better player than Babyknight. Lucifron is a great Terran, considering he beat Stephano 4-1 in the "Stim to win" tournament. I would think it's safe to assume that Lucifron played poorly.

-AGL August Invitational

TSL.HyuN beats ROOTod 4-0. I mean is that really a surprise?

-Battle at Ministry of Win: get outPlayed

Nerchio takes out Sage 3-1. Nerchio is considered to be the best foreign Zerg behind Stephano. I would consider this win justified, since Sage's only accomplishment was all-killing fOu back on July 2011.

-Samsung European Encounter

Nerchio defeats Demuslim 2-0
Okay, so here is the first somewhat Zerg heavy tournament. I will admit Nerchio had a much easier road in the tournament than Demuslim. But Nerchio is by far a stronger player than DeMu.

Major Tournaments

-IEF 2012

SaSe defeats TooDming 2-1
I have no idea who anyone in this tournament is except for SaSe. I'd say it was a well deserved win for the Protoss race.

-World e-Sports Masters 2012

Leenock defeats JYP 3-0
I think you have to respect a Code: S player, and I think it's nice that JYP, a somewhat unknown, Protoss player made it all the way to the finals in this tournament.

-ASUS ROG The GD Invitational

ThorZaiN defeats Elfi 3-2
OMG a Zerg didn't win? WTF RAGEEEEEEEE. JK. Nice TvP Finals

-IeSF 2012 World Championship

Monchi defeats NightEnD 3-1. Top 4 was all Protoss in this tournament. And Sen gets beaten by Verdi? HUGE UPSET.

-2012 MLG vs Proleague Invitational

SKT1_SoO defeats fnatic.Oz 4-2
I don't know too much about SoO other than hes a Kespa player, and is on the same team as Rain. So i'm sure he gets great practice against Protoss.

-EPS Belin Open

MouzHasuobs a Protoss defeats Slivko a Zerg 3-1
Same Zerg that dominated White-ra, falling to a Protoss. Maybe White-ra's QQ is a sign that hes getting old, and should retire?

Premier Events
-2012 MLG Fall Championship(Dallas)

Life defeats Leenock 4-3
Here is the 2nd ZvZ that I've covered so far. 2 TvZ's in the Semi-finals, and due to poor play on the Terrans part, both Code: S Zergs advance. Which is not surprising since they are Code: S.

-Electronic Sports World Cup 2012

MaNa defeats ForGG 2-0
A PvT finals. With 2 Protoss, a Terran, and a Zerg(Stephano) in the Semi-Finals

-2012 DreamHack Open: Bucharest

Nerchio defeats Bly 3-0

The 3rd ZvZ finals in the games I've covered.

-2012 StarCraft II World Championship Series: Asia Finals

Rain defeats Parting 2-0

HUGE Protoss representation in this tournament. If you think Protoss is under-represented look at this tournament. Top 4 all Protoss

-2012 DreamHack Open: Valencia

Taeja defeats ForGG 3-2
3 Terrans and 1 Zerg in the Semi-finals

-2012 StarCraft II World Championship Series: Europe Finals

Stephano defeats VortiX 3-2
The 4th ZvZ finals that I've covered.

So in the tournaments(Sept'12-Nov'12) with Notable players the tournament representation looks like this,

Protoss- 5 wins
Terran- 3 wins
Zerg- 8 wins

Terran overall has less tournament wins, but for a few reasons.
A lot of the top Terrans Marineking, ByuN, SuperNova, TOP, jjakji, Virus, I can name more, don't actively play in tournaments. Whereas Protoss and Zerg players do.

Oh and out of the 16 tournaments 4 were ZvZ's. That doesn't seem like a Zerg fest to me.
Edited by Swarm on 11/9/2012 10:54 PM PST
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