StarCraft® II

in your opinion is aoe as a whole to op

Most games aoe spells/attacks do smaller amounts of damage but over a larger area. In SC2 the most powerful units in the game are also the ones dealing aoe damage. Tanks, collosi, fungal, etc are all very heavy hitters. Banelings at least die when they do aoe but the other units are free to wreck further havoc. So my question is do you think this sort of mechanic to the game is for the better or does it take something away from what could otherwise be a totally different game?
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L2Split scrub.
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Enigma
L2Split scrub.


The community here became as filthy as that of League of Legends.
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Enigma
L2Split scrub.


The community here became as filthy as that of League of Legends.


MID, MID IS MINE, IM MID, MID OR FEED, IM MIIIIIDD. MID OR GTFO, 2500 ELO SMURF, MID IS MINE.

Still better here imo.
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11/14/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Nightwolf
Most games aoe spells/attacks do smaller amounts of damage but over a larger area. In SC2 the most powerful units in the game are also the ones dealing aoe damage. Tanks, collosi, fungal, etc are all very heavy hitters. Banelings at least die when they do aoe but the other units are free to wreck further havoc. So my question is do you think this sort of mechanic to the game is for the better or does it take something away from what could otherwise be a totally different game?
The best way to approach that is to thin about what would happen without AoE. protoss would lose to mass ling and marine. zerg would be unable to deal with marine timings. terran would find every force they sent out against a zerg cut off and surrounded by lings. AoE is necessary and not overpowered, as it is balanced by both its necessity and sheer numbers of opponents.
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I'm all for mechanics that reduce death ball play and aoe is one way to help reduce death ball play. So I think the aoe should be buffed if anything.
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Enigma
L2Split scrub.


The community here became as filthy as that of League of Legends.


Not even close, man.

On topic, I don't think that AoE is overpowered, but I do think that the units that do AoE damage shouldn't be particularly mobile. Kind of like setting up a siege, right? It would make the game more interesting if the colossus were replaced by something like the reaver, so it does a !@#$load of aoe damage but it moves so ridiculously slow that you need to have it set up and micro with warp prisms and etc. I'm not saying it should be the reaver, but it would be more interesting if colossus wasn't just a-move.
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It is either too powerful or not powerful enough, depending on whether the opponent plays well.

Right now, area effect damage is used as a band-aid to cover the deficiencies in the balancing of the units that do not deal area effect or splash damage. A critical mass of marines requires an area effect response from any opponent that has not taken a very large lead. This makes every single Terran match in which a Terran builds a significant number of marines a marine-centric match. Can the marines be mowed down by siege tanks, blue flame hellions, fungals, banelings, colossi lasers or storm in sufficient enough quantities? If not, the marines win. And the more efficient a player can be in controlling his marines, the more area effect damage his opponent needs to invest in to deal with it. Very one-dimensional.

And this one-dimensionality becomes binary when medivacs are added into the mix: then it's a matter not just of being able to do the damage, but being able to deliver all of it at more or less the same time: marines have pitifully low health compared to most units, but can be healed up with a very great efficiency and absorb, over the long term, many times their hitpoint totals in damage. They tend to die instantly or not at all. A similar thing with roach/hydra composition happens in PvZ, though hydralisks are used much less often than marines-- and transfuse isn't anywhere near as obnoxiously effective as medivac healing in skirmish situations.

Area effect damage does turn situations in which one player could not possibly win into one that he can (or even probably will) win. That sounds pretty overpowered! But the situation in which the player could not have possibly won without area effect damage is often not one which his opponent earned by superior play-- it is just granted to him by race selection. This makes strategies too reliant on just one aspect of micro, that of spreading out. It makes the game stale, regardless of the balance.
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11/14/2012 01:01 AMPosted by Enigma
L2Split scrub.


um i didnt even give my own opinion on the topic. This is merely a topic based on curiosity of other ppls opinions.
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11/14/2012 01:34 AMPosted by SenorChang
I'm all for mechanics that reduce death ball play and aoe is one way to help reduce death ball play. So I think the aoe should be buffed if anything.
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Basically what ball said. Need dat aoe because of marines.
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The community here became as filthy as that of League of Legends.


MID, MID IS MINE, IM MID, MID OR FEED, IM MIIIIIDD. MID OR GTFO, 2500 ELO SMURF, MID IS MINE.

Still better here imo.


Not really. Here there are numerous BlizzBots who defend Blizzard and try to belittle any poster who isn't groveling at Blizzard's feet. Example - a post regarding design decisions is met with " L2Split scrub. Roflz SC2 awesome or GTfOz" can't engage in any meaningful discussion so shame tactics are used. Pretty pathetic.
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Who cares about people's opinions? What does that prove?
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MVP - StarCraft
Starcraft has always involved AOE and splash damage. Siege Tanks. Psi Storm. EMP. Corsairs. Irradiate. Firebats. Plague. Even non-damaging AOE effects like Disruption Web and Dark Swarm. It's part of the game.
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The community here became as filthy as that of League of Legends.


MID, MID IS MINE, IM MID, MID OR FEED, IM MIIIIIDD. MID OR GTFO, 2500 ELO SMURF, MID IS MINE.

Still better here imo.


It's easy for the problem to not notice he is the problem.
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OP, possibly. But needed the way it is for the most part.
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11/14/2012 07:34 AMPosted by Doncroft
Starcraft has always involved AOE and splash damage. Siege Tanks. Psi Storm. EMP. Corsairs. Irradiate. Firebats. Plague. Even non-damaging AOE effects like Disruption Web and Dark Swarm. It's part of the game.


The difference between BW and WoL is that AOE spells are now highly spammable, because of smart casting. It's as easy to cast 10 storms as it is to cast 1 storm. To cast 10 storms in BW took some pretty serious micro.
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The amount of AoE is simply, well unfortunate because of the dps. It negates micro and is unfortunate because of that :S
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AOE is important, but it needs to be balanced with strong downsides. I think AOE is slightly too strong at the moment, only because it is slightly too easy to pull off in many cases. For example, the Colossus desperately needs some greater degree of difficulty in actually doing damage. It has such a powerful AOE attack, and all that really needs to be done in regards to doing the damage is keeping it alive by pulling it back a little.

AOE spells are also a tad too easy to pull off IMO because of smart-cast. It is too easy to carpet bomb an entire area with psi storms, EMP, or chain fungal, because you can have all your casters selected at the same time and cast spell after spell. Imagine how much harder it would be to chain fungal if you had to select each infester individually.
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