StarCraft® II

Would you considere this cheese

I open the same way vs protoss every game with a 13 scout, 14 pool. then i either hatch at 15 or if they block it i take my first gas for speed. With my scout i see nexus first and react by making 6 lings that arrive right as the cannon drops. Take my expansion about this time as he pulls probes to come and kill my lings. If i can i take out a pylong otherwise i run to the ramp and engage probes there. Now at this point i know he will eventually overpower my lings but not till i take a good amount with me. I have the lead and have to make a decision to macro up or try to finish him off. My initial scout becomes a proxy hatch while i drone up in my natural. i never fall behind in workers after thta ling engagement and win with proxy hatch roach. happens a lot but i get yelled at nearly every game
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People who nexus first and then get mad when it backfires are typically MLG fanbois who saw somebody do it on a vod but don't actually understand the theory behind it.
The fact of the matter is nexus first is an all-in greed play. The reason it ever works in the first place is because lazy zerg scouting is common. If the zerg scouts it and rushes it, there is no way to recover except with vastly superior micro and decision making. This is exactly how it should be. Nexus first is simply too greedy for there to be any kind of parachute out of it. If your opponents understood that, they would accept their fate and move on.
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nexus first isn't allin.

The way nexus first works is that you 9 scout, and if you see your opponent has a 6-10pool, then you throw down the forge instead of the nexus, because you haven't even thrown the nexus down yet. If you see a 14-15p, you're free to go nexus first, and then forge, and depending on the map, you can throw down a cannon or gateway next. That requires some more knowledge.

And protoss players won't make dumb mistakes at higher levels this consistently.
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so zergs taking a third at 5 mins isnt considered greedy im guessing.

If I dont see a pool by the time I scout, im going nexus first, Its the only way you can catch up to zerg if they go hatch first.

So no, I dont think nexus first is greedy.

Early pool- forge first
Hatch first- nexus first.
Edited by Vest on 11/14/2012 3:51 PM PST
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Just call them a noob and move on
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The way nexus first works is that you 9 scout, and if you see your opponent has a 6-10pool, then you throw down the forge instead of the nexus, because you haven't even thrown the nexus down yet. If you see a 14-15p, you're free to go nexus first, and then forge, and depending on the map, you can throw down a cannon or gateway next. That requires some more knowledge.


This

so zergs taking a third at 5 mins isnt considered greedy im guessing.


Taking a 3rd hatch at 5 is a necessity not greedy since P 2 base all ins crush all 2 base Zerg tech plays. Taking a 3rd hatch and droning up to 70+ drones with all 6 gases is greedy - but that's why Protoss has 4/5 gate harass into +2 blink stalker or sentry immortal all in.
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Any protoss that takes damage from 6 lings after a 13 pool shouldn't be playing starcraft. I've played Protoss who can hold a 10p without losing a single probe.
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11/14/2012 05:56 PMPosted by tBz
Any protoss that takes damage from 6 lings after a 13 pool shouldn't be playing starcraft. I've played Protoss who can hold a 10p without losing a single probe.


wouldnt an equal level zerg be able to micro just as good with his lings to not lose them
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he ca finish walloff easily before a 14pool gets there even with nexus first, and now u are behind because u let pylon finish at your nat to send lings across the map. in addition, if u are relying on proxy hatches then u arent getting better at actually playing the game.

a better way to punish nexus first:

scout at 13 supply, u see nexus first. use this probe to block his nat, and send 2 drones to chase his probe at your nat. while he is focusing on trying to get his nexus down, u usually kill his scouting probe, and then double hatch before pool, while he has a delayed nexus. proceed to win a "macro" game, but really u won in the first 5 minutes because you are WAY ahead.
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Any protoss that takes damage from 6 lings after a 13 pool shouldn't be playing starcraft. I've played Protoss who can hold a 10p without losing a single probe.


wouldnt an equal level zerg be able to micro just as good with his lings to not lose them


Its not a matter of micro. Its a matter of proper scouting and building timings. On many maps a protoss can get away with nexuis 1st vs a 12pool, which means they can effeminately do it vs a 13 pool.
Edited by tBz on 11/14/2012 8:50 PM PST
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so zergs taking a third at 5 mins isnt considered greedy im guessing.

If I dont see a pool by the time I scout, im going nexus first, Its the only way you can catch up to zerg if they go hatch first.

So no, I dont think nexus first is greedy.

Early pool- forge first
Hatch first- nexus first.


That's the point really. The people that die to the OPs build don't think like this.
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