StarCraft® II

The Immortal Sentry All In

Posts: 906
Not since the 1/1/1 has their been a build so dominating in the game. This is possibly the most common build for Protosses to use from diamond to the pro scene. This build has dominated Zergs in Korea for a long time now but recently it seems that Toss players have perfected the build to the point where Zerg never beats it anymore.

If you want to watch an example look at WCS Asia, the OSL finals or any Parting game in the last 2 months. The strength of the all in is simple. Hit Zerg with a lot of sentries and immortals before they have the tech to deal with it. On certain maps the terrain makes it so Protoss can block Zerg off their army nearly forever (Ohana, Cloud Kingdom) and unless the Toss misses his force fields he is pretty much guaranteed a kill of the third. This build is almost single handily killing Zerg in Korea. Much like the 1/1/1 it is too strong and needs to either be nerfed or Zerg needs to be given tools to deal with it properly.

So the question is how would you fix this without effecting other matchups and making Protoss UP in PvZ?
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Posts: 15,706
Example of how OP this build is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNLvAkogfU&feature=plcp
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Posts: 491
Make queens a massive unit?
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Posts: 665
Protoss needs to kill you early so you cant go infestor/broodlord Haaahaaa
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Posts: 1,868
Example of how OP this build is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNLvAkogfU&feature=plcp
Win.
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 22,989
It's an awesome build. I've changed it in Heart of the Swarm so it isn't an all-in. I do a 5 gate instead of a 7 gate, make sure the Mothership Core is close to Recall energy when I move out, and take a 3rd base behind the push. Sometimes I kill the Zerg 3rd; sometimes I just do tons of damage to their army. But either way, it puts me on even footing with the Zerg and allows me to expand safely.

Viva Immortals. Good unit.
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Posts: 1,868
It's an awesome build. I've changed it in Heart of the Swarm so it isn't an all-in. I do a 5 gate instead of a 7 gate, make sure the Mothership Core is close to Recall energy when I move out, and take a 3rd base behind the push. Sometimes I kill the Zerg 3rd; sometimes I just do tons of damage to their army. But either way, it puts me on even footing with the Zerg and allows me to expand safely.

Viva Immortals. Good unit.
Swarm host inc
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Posts: 973
Not since the 1/1/1 has their been a build so dominating in the game. This is possibly the most common build for Protosses to use from diamond to the pro scene. This build has dominated Zergs in Korea for a long time now but recently it seems that Toss players have perfected the build to the point where Zerg never beats it anymore.

If you want to watch an example look at WCS Asia, the OSL finals or any Parting game in the last 2 months. The strength of the all in is simple. Hit Zerg with a lot of sentries and immortals before they have the tech to deal with it. On certain maps the terrain makes it so Protoss can block Zerg off their army nearly forever (Ohana, Cloud Kingdom) and unless the Toss misses his force fields he is pretty much guaranteed a kill of the third. This build is almost single handily killing Zerg in Korea. Much like the 1/1/1 it is too strong and needs to either be nerfed or Zerg needs to be given tools to deal with it properly.

So the question is how would you fix this without effecting other matchups and making Protoss UP in PvZ?


lol
let the meta handle it bro
for once can there be a build that's difficult for zerg to deal with?

dominates the pro scene you say?
tvp :
1 rax fe, 2 barracks at 24 supply, 2 gas at 25 supply == statistically like 90% of gsl games, lol

pvt:
1 gate fe, 2 gates at 28ish supply, robo == statistically like 90% of gsl games, lol

tvz:
1rax fe into helloin banshee + 3rd CC == statistically like 45% of games
the other 45% are proxy 11/11
the rest are some kind of cc first or 1 rax fe into multiple factories

zvt:
different almost every game with gas timings.
there is fast lair, fast ling speed for a speedling attack, a 10 roach push, roach ling bane, a fast 3rd gasless, 4 queens and then 2 gas + a 5th queen and lair. after that you can choose between ling muta and infestor ling as a midgame. banelings only become part of your build if you are surprised by a terran army and didn't make enough zerglings for his timing.

ALSO probably the most important thing i can say about this, so if you read any of thise read this:

1/1/1 was op because it was way too good, when in reality terran didn't NEED to do 1/1/1 at all. even in modern day with winrates slightly favoring protoss, terran can still play a solid macro game and get a free small econ lead with 1rax fe.. their MU to lose

it was op because some ppl cc'd after, some ppl all inned, etc. the difference bewtween this and immortal sentry, is that blizzard has nerfed every other pvz pressure build (simultaneously we were all getting better at holding pressure), making this and a 3 base collo build pretty much the only good pressures. combine this with the "fact"/opinion that zerg deathball is unkillable by a protoss army and you will have a matchup where zerg gets all inn'd every single game
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 22,989
10/28/2012 08:41 AMPosted by AntareSpicA
Swarm host inc

They don't come out fast enough to stop the push, but you're right. They DO make it difficult to hold my third. I have to rush out a Colossus, Forcefield, try to get Blink Stalkers, and hold on for dear life.
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Posts: 5,868
How about don't just take 3 free bases at 5 minutes and prepare for the push? All the zergs I've seen lose to builds like these are the ones that think they can drone freely until I push out.
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Posts: 665
10/28/2012 08:54 AMPosted by Xenomorph
How about don't just take 3 free bases at 5 minutes and prepare for the push? All the zergs I've seen lose to builds like these are the ones that think they can drone freely until I push out.


This is true. If you're greedy you get punished
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Posts: 976

So the question is how would you fix this without effecting other matchups and making Protoss UP in PvZ?
Broodlord/Infestor is a much bigger issue in PvZ than the Immortal/Sentry All-in. You can open 14 pool/hatch, 17 hatch and drone straight to 75 then with spot on injects you can have 30 hydras and 50 speedlings out by the time this hits (Which easily destroys it). Then grab your fourth after it's hold, jump into Infestor/Roach tech while getting to greater spire. Make broodlords and win while preventing the tosses third with your left over units if you still have a beefy amount of them.
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Posts: 13,582
Don't worry. This will be nerfed because Zerg can't adapt.
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Posts: 4,510
didn't zerg already counter this build with fast muta?
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Posts: 5,868
10/28/2012 09:31 AMPosted by Anesthetic
How about don't just take 3 free bases at 5 minutes and prepare for the push? All the zergs I've seen lose to builds like these are the ones that think they can drone freely until I push out.


BEcause then you die.


You die if you don't play greedily? Instead of opting for a 3 minute third how about faster upgrades and spines protecting the top of the ramp at your expansion? Not saying that fast thirds can't win you the game, but I feel like zergs just assume on FFE they can just take as many bases as they want.
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Posts: 2,698
Example of how OP this build is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNLvAkogfU&feature=plcp


Wow blitz, this is amazing hah. Thank you.
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Posts: 719
Example of how OP this build is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNLvAkogfU&feature=plcp


Goddamit i was actually expecting a pro replay. lol
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