StarCraft® II

The Immortal Sentry All In

Posts: 1,984
They don't come out fast enough to stop the push, but you're right. They DO make it difficult to hold my third. I have to rush out a Colossus, Forcefield, try to get Blink Stalkers, and hold on for dear life.
i meant the third if you where wondering.To stop it is roach ling. If you practice engaging FF with a partner you wont have a problem with immortal sentry.
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10/28/2012 09:42 AMPosted by AntareSpicA
They don't come out fast enough to stop the push, but you're right. They DO make it difficult to hold my third. I have to rush out a Colossus, Forcefield, try to get Blink Stalkers, and hold on for dear life.
i meant the third if you where wondering.To stop it is roach ling. If you practice engaging FF with a partner you wont have a problem with immortal sentry.

But...I'm Protoss.
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While I personally think it's rather.......hard for Zerg to stop, I wouldn't say it's "imbalanced". However, I must say that I don't ever really enjoy Immortal/Sentry games. To me it's "Can Zerg bait the FF's? Can Zerg get a good engage? Will Zerg Have infestors?" And if Zerg is able to do one or two of those things they win, but if not they simply insta-lose.
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Example of how OP this build is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNLvAkogfU&feature=plcp


That is HILARIOUS!
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Posts: 382
The build was created to stop zerg early so they couldnt get the super op infestor broodlord comp. I dont know why you think it needs to be nerfed many zergs have held it with spines/ling/roach. The key is for the zerg to also be at 1atk/1def since when toss pushes out thats where their upgrades will be at.
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Posts: 4,105
It's really just scouting and reacting.

If the toss has been on 2 base for a long time, and doesn't take a third sac an ovie before you take your 4-6th gas. The army and structures you see should make it pretty clear what he is doing, then max on ling/roach and set up for a flank.
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More Roaches.
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10/28/2012 08:57 AMPosted by iDontCareOk
How about don't just take 3 free bases at 5 minutes and prepare for the push? All the zergs I've seen lose to builds like these are the ones that think they can drone freely until I push out.


This is true. If you're greedy you get punished


Yep and if zerg dont take a fast third, protoss expands instead and goes to colossus tech. Stellar advice.
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10/28/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Mallard
Yep and if zerg dont take a fast third, protoss expands instead and goes to colossus tech. Stellar advice.


2 base ling/roach zerg vs 3 base colossus protoss sounds like a winning combination.
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10/28/2012 09:38 AMPosted by Anesthetic
Because if a protoss player scouts no third he will assume 90% of the time thats an all-in coming and will probably go a different build. Also you cant produce enough units off of 2 bases to kill the immortal/sentry all-in. Not to mention the fact that if they dont scout a third they can simply just take their expansion and they will be AHEAD.


If they take a third you commit to the 2 base. Defending a protoss third is incredibly hard unless you get vastly ahead early on. Plus it isn't possible that a protoss can just radically change their build after scouting you have no third. Sentry/Immortal all-in is a very specific build with a very specific window. It is also heavily reliant on perfect FFs so if you have burrow move by the timing it negates the build partially.

I don't see how sentry/immortal all in is any different than using builds like 3 base roach all in.
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10/28/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Anesthetic
No. Defending a protoss third with sentries and immortals is a piece of cake if you aren't bad.

Anesthetic, while I'm no champion, you know from our 1v1s that my Immortal Sentry control is moderately good, but I've never truly been able to just sit back, defend, and take a third vs Zerg. They'll attack my third and natural with wave after wave of Roaches and Lings with upgrades, and it's very hard to hold off on both fronts.

That's why I always try to put pressure on the Zerg player when I'm on 2 base. If you don't, it's very difficult to secure a third.

I know you're a very good Protoss player, but not every Protoss player can defend very well against an untouched 3 base Zerg.
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10/28/2012 11:49 AMPosted by Anesthetic
Realistically you should be able to defend a third if you do the proper build order and get the proper amount of sentries and immortals out. the robo + 4 gate expand is one of the most common openings in master's level and I am confident in saying that you probably just need to work on your BO.

Maybe. But wouldn't you agree it's good to be putting serious pressure on the Zerg whenever possible, especially with recall available?
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10/28/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Anesthetic
Actually you scout if a zerg has a third @ around the 5 minute mark or slightly earlier, thats WAYYYYYYY more than enough time to alter your build.


To what exactly? Immortal all-in doesn't matter if the zerg has 2 bases or 3 its a specific build with a specific timing you have to prepare for. You cannot simply just straight transition into a stargate build or a blink stalker build without just getting merc'd on anyway.

No. Defending a protoss third with sentries and immortals is a piece of cake if you aren't bad.

I'm going to pull the league card here and say you have no idea what you are talking about, zerg CANNOT survive without an early third UNLESSS they go muta and do some economic damage either with mutas or some other form of attack (ling/bling drops or hydra nydus worm etc.)


Okay so which is it? A sentry immortal all in or a defense? If you are going all in you better hit quickly with the two base. Now your just arguing metagame semantics from the original discussion on immortal/sentry all-in being mostly unstoppable.

The point I was making about the 2 base is if you know you cannot hold with a third up you should probably prepare for the all in with lots of spines and tons of units. As long as you hold the all in it doesn't matter how many bases you are on because you win as long as you hold.

You can pull the league card, it won't mean you are correct. You prove arguments with facts that relate to the discussion not leagues.
Edited by Xenomorph on 10/28/2012 11:55 AM PDT
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Posts: 199
10/28/2012 09:04 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
Don't worry. This will be nerfed because Zerg can't adapt.

It took terran players over 6 months to quit crying about the queen buff and learn to go around to attack the drones. Now who can't adapt? But yeah I do think people need to learn how to defend against this.
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Posts: 299

So the question is how would you fix this without effecting other matchups and making Protoss UP in PvZ?
Broodlord/Infestor is a much bigger issue in PvZ than the Immortal/Sentry All-in. You can open 14 pool/hatch, 17 hatch and drone straight to 75 then with spot on injects you can have 30 hydras and 50 speedlings out by the time this hits (Which easily destroys it). Then grab your fourth after it's hold, jump into Infestor/Roach tech while getting to greater spire. Make broodlords and win while preventing the tosses third with your left over units if you still have a beefy amount of them.


this is the most stupid post I seen in a long time, Please you don't understand this game or the match up, hydras in zvp?? yeah you clearly don't play the same game I do.
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